S
schwine
New member
Which has the better overall microphone quality: The internal mic for the Edirol R-09HR portable digital recorder, or an SM-58 standalone microphone?
Thanks for any input.
Thanks for any input.
Shadow_7
New member
Depending on what specs you are striving for with better quality. In terms of being shot at by a shotgun, my vote goes to the SM58.
In terms of taking a bad room out of the picture SM58.
In terms of capturing an ensemble at a distance, the R09. Even at less of a distance the R09. A large ensemble / rock concert, perhaps the SM58, depending on the SPL specs for the R09.
Not that either is the end of the road in the quest for quality. So it's more of a best compromise. Which depends on the source and situation.
In terms of taking a bad room out of the picture SM58.
In terms of capturing an ensemble at a distance, the R09. Even at less of a distance the R09. A large ensemble / rock concert, perhaps the SM58, depending on the SPL specs for the R09.
Not that either is the end of the road in the quest for quality. So it's more of a best compromise. Which depends on the source and situation.
S
schwine
New member
Here is the application: interview recording in mono while sitting down at a table in a livingroom. I am also able to enhance the recording in post production with Adobe Audition software.
Given these factors, is there another mic most suitable for this application?
Given these factors, is there another mic most suitable for this application?
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Shadow_7
New member
That's not very descriptive. Dirt, stone, tile, wood, or carpeted floor? Rug, curtains, tall ceiling or low? You kind of need something descriptive of the acoustics, not just the space. I could tell you the dimensions of my living room, but your bathroom might make it look more like a closet.
One speaker or two? A single SM58 will not likely service more than one speaker. Given it's directionality and need for proximity to be useful. Unless you're tossing the mic back and forth like a news caster. And if you live next to the firehouse or police station the first responders influence on your acoustic space could render either set of mics useless a fair amount of the time.
One speaker or two? A single SM58 will not likely service more than one speaker. Given it's directionality and need for proximity to be useful. Unless you're tossing the mic back and forth like a news caster. And if you live next to the firehouse or police station the first responders influence on your acoustic space could render either set of mics useless a fair amount of the time.
S
schwine
New member
Linoleum floor with curtains. Room size: 13x10 feet with an eight foot ceiling. One microphone for one speaker. This a quiet area with limited external noise.
mshilarious
Banned
If you're looking for VO type sound, the SM58, but you'll need a preamp in front of the Edirol. And the interviewee has to be comfortable with that type of recording (microphone in face). Or with the internal mics, you can orient the recorder such that one mic points more or less to one person.
Another possibility is two lapel mics terminated to the Edirol's mic input (Sound Professionals sells stuff like that). That will probably be better than the internal mics, given that room.
Another possibility is two lapel mics terminated to the Edirol's mic input (Sound Professionals sells stuff like that). That will probably be better than the internal mics, given that room.
S
schwine
New member
I've considered lapel and headset mics. I like the idea of a headset mic because the mic itself is closer to the speaker, but how about the quality? Here is a headset mic I have considered vs. the SM58.
What do you think about this headset mic for my application?
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/94a69a7f0cbde4b3/index.html
Specifications for the headset mic:
Type: Dynamic
Polar Pattern: Hypercardioid
Frequency Response: 200-18,000 Hz
Open Circuit Sensitivity: -55 dB (1.7 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa
Impedance: 600 ohms
Specifications for the SM-58 mic:
Type: Dynamic
Polar Pattern: Cardioid
Frequency Response: 50 to 15,000 Hz
Sensitivity (at 1,000 Hz Open Circuit Voltage): –54.5 dBV/Pa (1.85 mV) 1Pa=94dBSPL
Impedance: Rated impedance is 150Ω (300Ω actual) for connection to microphone inputs rated low impedance
What do you think about this headset mic for my application?
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/94a69a7f0cbde4b3/index.html
Specifications for the headset mic:
Type: Dynamic
Polar Pattern: Hypercardioid
Frequency Response: 200-18,000 Hz
Open Circuit Sensitivity: -55 dB (1.7 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa
Impedance: 600 ohms
Specifications for the SM-58 mic:
Type: Dynamic
Polar Pattern: Cardioid
Frequency Response: 50 to 15,000 Hz
Sensitivity (at 1,000 Hz Open Circuit Voltage): –54.5 dBV/Pa (1.85 mV) 1Pa=94dBSPL
Impedance: Rated impedance is 150Ω (300Ω actual) for connection to microphone inputs rated low impedance
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mshilarious
Banned
For recording with a headset or lapel, I would always use omni rather than directional because the sound is better, they are less sensitive to wind noise/popping, and you don't need rejection with a mic that close to source. In fact I prefer omni lapels for live sound too, usually the mic isn't oriented for the rear rejection to be useful and directional mics get a bit strange when their rear vents are blocked.
Again, will the interviewee be comfortable with a headset mic?
Again, will the interviewee be comfortable with a headset mic?
S
schwine
New member
Yes, that's not a problem.
I'm not big on lapel mics fastened to a shirt because of the noise recorded when the interviewee adjusts their seating position or even moves their arms somewhat.
mshilarious
Banned
Then you can use omni headsets. Omnis are less sensitive to popping and handling noise, and they have better frequency response and signal to noise ratio than small directional capsules.
Shadow_7
New member
I have the ATM75 headset mic. The one you linked to is probably better. Relative to my other mics, lower frequency response specs. Higher noise floor. And the supplied wind foams don't do much if the mic element is in the line of fire. Best to have it off axis IMO. It's close enough to not be a significant negative influence.
So I take it that you're doing radio show type interviews? Or is there some video involved. Some types might not find headset mics fashionable. And might be hesitant to wear them after the greasy hair 50's type or homeless guy wore them. Otherwise an option. The advantage is that the mic always stays the same distance and orientation. Which can also be a disadvantage for folks with a wide dynamic range. But still an advantage as the proximity takes most of the room out of the picture. And it frees up the speaker to read from a script. But still a bit of a compromise. And generally harder to sell as a used item.
So I take it that you're doing radio show type interviews? Or is there some video involved. Some types might not find headset mics fashionable. And might be hesitant to wear them after the greasy hair 50's type or homeless guy wore them. Otherwise an option. The advantage is that the mic always stays the same distance and orientation. Which can also be a disadvantage for folks with a wide dynamic range. But still an advantage as the proximity takes most of the room out of the picture. And it frees up the speaker to read from a script. But still a bit of a compromise. And generally harder to sell as a used item.
S
schwine
New member
Yes, I am doing audio interviews without video.
The fashionable or hygeniec concerns with headsets are not an issue with my interviewees (I would always throughly clean the headsets between interviewees).
Now I've found an omni-directional headset that looks pretty good.
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/accessories/5c5221cd4c8f829e/index.html
I have to confess that while looking at the photo of this headset, I can't picture how one attaches it securely to one's head. Although part of the product description reads: "Flexible, contoured loop hooks over either ear for a comfortable fit." That's a problem by itself if the contoured loop ends up being flimsy or loose.
Headset Specs for Audio-Technica PRO 92CW
Frequency response: 20-20,000 Hz
Sensitivity: –45 dB (5.6 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa
Maximum input sound level: 116 dB SPL, 1 kHz at 1% T.H.D.
Signal to noise ratio: 60 dB, 1 kHz at 1 Pa
While this headset looks pretty good, how about a tabletop mic with similar quality (I know the SM-58 doesn't compare at this level). What's a good omni-directional tabletop mic with good specs?
The fashionable or hygeniec concerns with headsets are not an issue with my interviewees (I would always throughly clean the headsets between interviewees).
Now I've found an omni-directional headset that looks pretty good.
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/accessories/5c5221cd4c8f829e/index.html
I have to confess that while looking at the photo of this headset, I can't picture how one attaches it securely to one's head. Although part of the product description reads: "Flexible, contoured loop hooks over either ear for a comfortable fit." That's a problem by itself if the contoured loop ends up being flimsy or loose.
Headset Specs for Audio-Technica PRO 92CW
Frequency response: 20-20,000 Hz
Sensitivity: –45 dB (5.6 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa
Maximum input sound level: 116 dB SPL, 1 kHz at 1% T.H.D.
Signal to noise ratio: 60 dB, 1 kHz at 1 Pa
While this headset looks pretty good, how about a tabletop mic with similar quality (I know the SM-58 doesn't compare at this level). What's a good omni-directional tabletop mic with good specs?
mshilarious
Banned
A couple of things: usually headset mics like that will stay on securely, but everybody has their preference so it's hard to say. More importantly, that mic is terminated with AT's locking 4-pin adaptor for their wireless bodypack transmitters. What you really want is two of those terminated to a single stereo minijack so that your Edirol can power them directly. Otherwise you'd have to get AT's phantom adaptors and a preamp, which raises the cost quite a lot.
That's why I suggested Sound Professionals, they do reterminations like this if you request it.
If you want to go with a single tabletop mount, you'd be looking at a boundary mic like the AT U841A. The disadvantage is you will pick up everything in the room, and also have poorer signal to noise ratio.
That's why I suggested Sound Professionals, they do reterminations like this if you request it.
If you want to go with a single tabletop mount, you'd be looking at a boundary mic like the AT U841A. The disadvantage is you will pick up everything in the room, and also have poorer signal to noise ratio.
Shadow_7
New member
My ATM75 is terminated with a normal XLR. But it does have options in terms of termination at the point of purchase. Not that I've used it a whole lot, but generally speaking the little foam headset pads I put above the ears and the loop rests on the neck. The mic can be flexed to any configuration so you have options. Draped on the neck allows for a regular headset over the ears to multi-track and other things. It's also less likely to shift since the mic element has a little heft and torque on it. And the loop isn't quite big enough to be worn like traditional headphones on my big melon.
It's still a bit of a compromise as there are better sounding mics at the same or similar price point.
It's still a bit of a compromise as there are better sounding mics at the same or similar price point.
S
schwine
New member
If you had to choose between a headset and a tabletop mic, which type and model would you choose for my application, and why?
mshilarious
Banned
From those two choices, the headsets. AT makes a zillion models of headsets and I only have experience with a few, so pick one that you think looks nice and meets your budget.
When you see a talk show and a tabletop mic (Jay Leno, Letterman, etc.), it's a backup. It's usually the second backup, as the guests might have lapels and there will be shotguns on booms off camera. Closer mics are better if you want to have options after the fact.
Shadow_7
New member
What type of distractons? Telephone, dog, TV, A/C, radio, washing machine, wind, rain, and other noise sources. The headset mics can really help isolate from those extra noises by proximity. And they are a little easier to control given the fixed proximity. They can also be problematic if going to swat a mosquito or something. Is the show LIVE or pre-recorded?
If you have a well controlled environment, then a table top mic could be better. If there is such a thing as controlled in this day and age. Pesky cats and dogs, crickets, and other critters...
S
schwine
New member
This is a pretty "controlled" environment in terms of external noise.
This is a senior's residence so the building is quiet in general. There is no live aspect to the recording. It's being recorded onto the Edirol recorder and will be edited with Adobe Audition afterwards in post production.
I don't have experience with headsets, but a reasonable quality headset might offer a fuller or richer sound of the speaker's voice because of the close proxmity of the mic to the speaker.
Perhaps the tabletop mic might sound a bit hollow in spots if the speaker doesn't always stay in a fixed position of even closeness to the mic during the course of the interview.
I can see that happening, just because it may be hard for a senior to keep still for any length of time in this context.
This is a senior's residence so the building is quiet in general. There is no live aspect to the recording. It's being recorded onto the Edirol recorder and will be edited with Adobe Audition afterwards in post production.
I don't have experience with headsets, but a reasonable quality headset might offer a fuller or richer sound of the speaker's voice because of the close proxmity of the mic to the speaker.
Perhaps the tabletop mic might sound a bit hollow in spots if the speaker doesn't always stay in a fixed position of even closeness to the mic during the course of the interview.
I can see that happening, just because it may be hard for a senior to keep still for any length of time in this context.
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