Earvana compensated nut?

[NRS]

I just installed one of these nuts on a new project guitar and am not really sure I like it. The install itself went okay and I followed instructions exactly plus re-intonated the guitar when finished as directed but when I actually sit down to play the thing something just sounds off to me even though the tuner is indicating each note its ringing true. Scales seem to sound okay but its mainly the chording that is bothering me. Maybe I'm just so used to how a standard nut sounds its going to take some getting used to but its been bothersome enough that I'm actually considering switching back.

Anyone else experience this with a compensated nut?

Heres what I purchaced: https://www.earvana.com/

 

[dgatwood]

I just installed one of these nuts on a new project guitar and am not really sure I like it. The install itself went okay and I followed instructions exactly plus re-intonated the guitar when finished as directed but when I actually sit down to play the thing something just sounds off to me even though the tuner is indicating each note its ringing true. Scales seem to sound okay but its mainly the chording that is bothering me. Maybe I'm just so used to how a standard nut sounds its going to take some getting used to but its been bothersome enough that I'm actually considering switching back.

You're probably just used to chords being out of tune. Coming from the piano, I found the compensated nut to be a breath of fresh air. Guitar chords caused me deep-seated pain before that.

Either that or the intonation still isn't right. Are you doing intonation in octaves or fourths?

 

[Light]

They don't work. They bring things closer to being right in line with equal temperament, but most chords (at least, any chord with a third in it, which is the vast majority of them, and seconds, sixths and sevenths ain't too grand either) don't sound very good in equal temperament.

We've installed several of them, and I think they are a total waste of time and money.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[dgatwood]

They don't work. They bring things closer to being right in line with equal temperament, but most chords (at least, any chord with a third in it, which is the vast majority of them, and seconds, sixths and sevenths ain't too grand either) don't sound very good in equal temperament.

I'd hate to think how much you must hate playing with pianos/keyboards, which are all tuned in equal temperament....

 

[Light]

I'd hate to think how much you must hate playing with pianos/keyboards, which are all tuned in equal temperament....

People have done it for years without ever having a problem, so why do we need to change it now? It a solution without a problem.

Oh, and no, pianos are NEVER tuned to equal temperament, they are stretched to make them sound more in tune. A piano tuned to equal temperament would sound awful.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[32-20-Blues]

I'd hate to think how much you must hate playing with pianos/keyboards, which are all tuned in equal temperament....

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't the fret placement/tuning of a guitar based on equal temperament? I know there is an approximation or a compromise involved, but guitar tuning is at least based on equal temperament as opposed to just intonation, right?

 

[NRS]

Either that or the intonation still isn't right. Are you doing intonation in octaves or fourths?

I did the intonation at the 12th fret of each string then double checked all the EADGB notes in between.

 

[dgatwood]

Oh, and no, pianos are NEVER tuned to equal temperament, they are stretched to make them sound more in tune. A piano tuned to equal temperament would sound awful.

No, an unstretched piano doesn't sound awful. It just sounds dull. The greater the stretch, the brighter the instrument sounds because the second and fourth order harmonics more closely approximate octaves. This is basically compensates for the unusual characteristic resonance of metal strings, which don't really generate harmonics at the theoretical (multiple of two, etc.) frequencies.

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't the fret placement/tuning of a guitar based on equal temperament? I know there is an approximation or a compromise involved, but guitar tuning is at least based on equal temperament as opposed to just intonation, right?

Indeed, standard guitar tuning is an approximation of equal temperament, and thus is just as bad as pure equal temperament in terms of lack of stretch. The octaves for the bottom two notes are always precisely multiple-of-two tuned, whether you play the octave on the same string or on the adjacent string.

Before you give up on the Earvana nut, try this: with the Earvana nut installed, redo your intonation in octaves, but instead of setting it to exactly an octave, throw it about 2.5 cents sharp of the octave below. You will then have a very close approximation of a proper stretched equal temperament tuning. Now tune your strings up from the bottom by ear, ignoring the tuner when it tells you that each string is a hair sharper than the one before it.

That's how my guitar is tuned. I think you'll find it much more natural once you get used to it, but YMMV.

 

[blackteeth]

yet another ridiculous contraption by some d&d guitar geek to drain the soul out of playing a simple 6-string musical instrument. I was hanging out on a plastic surgery chat room the other day and found out that my girlfriend would be way better if I just altered her into this one specific girl option they were all into. 'Golly' I thought... 'I hadn't even realized there was anything wrong with her!... but now I'm thinking Hmm?? If that's what they say is good about her then maybe thats what I should say too! Yea!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[solaris1982]

Light, I seem to recall several threads that ended in people yelling at you (and your obviously inferior experiences) when it came to equal temperamant, no?

 

[muttley600]

Light, I seem to recall several threads that ended in people yelling at you (and your obviously inferior experiences) when it came to equal temperamant, no?

Nope, in those threads people were mostly yelling at me because I know what I'm talking about.

Just an update on the original topic. Those things are a total waste of time and a good way of being far from in tune with yourself let alone any other instrument you may be accompanying. If you want to play your guitar "in tune" accept that it is always a compromise. Bone up on 12 ET for the guitar, plenty of links are available if you search my username and terms like temperament and guitar tuning etc. Finally learn to tune your guitar correctly.

If you really want to play perfect intervals you would need a guitar with around 31 fret per octave and even then you wouldn't be able to. Music in general is one of those rare occasions where physics and maths don't see eye to eye on the subject.

 

[Fusioninspace]

So is this anything like the Buzz Felton deal from a few years ago? I don't seem to see that advertised as much recently.

 

[Zaphod B]

Muttley, after tuning my guitars for over 30 years the wrong way, after reading these posts on equal temperament and how to tune correctly I have seen the light.

I don't have anything to say about the Earvana or Buzz Felten stuff but as Mutt and Light have said, they've always struck me as a solution to a nonexistent problem.

 

[Thurgood]

Wow, this is crazy. Gtrs not perfect. I do like after a few days/months of using the Luthiers Guild method sounds better to me. Could be wrong as I am an imperfect instrument. I have piano that needs tuning but I do notice that after "pro" tuning it sounds closer to my Guild tuned gts.? Kinda funny . Pythagorian commas etc. the ear is the final transducer.

 

[Light]

So is this anything like the Buzz Felton deal from a few years ago? I don't seem to see that advertised as much recently.

Similar in concept. Also similar in uselessness.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi