Ear training..?

[studiomaster]

I have difficulties identifying which note a singer is singing on. I know music theory..atleast most of it..but i keep having problems getting the correct notes on my head..so now whenever i play a tune on my keyboard, i literally have to perform 'trial and errors' to find the right keys. And later on after hours and hours, i'll probably get the tune laid up properly but it takes soooo much time. How do u guys usually determine notes in songs?

 

[mx_mx]

I have difficulties identifying which note a singer is singing on. I know music theory..atleast most of it..but i keep having problems getting the correct notes on my head..so now whenever i play a tune on my keyboard, i literally have to perform 'trial and errors' to find the right keys. And later on after hours and hours, i'll probably get the tune laid up properly but it takes soooo much time. How do u guys usually determine notes in songs?

I think you're talking about perfect pitch, and it's my understanding that few posess it.

 

[VMattyV]

I think you're talking about perfect pitch, and it's my understanding that few posess it.

Correct. You can work on relative pitch, but your probably never going to get Perfect Pitch.

 

[studiomaster]

Well yea thats totally true...but i mean..how does people know what key(on a keyboard for ex.) a singer is singing on? do they know exactly how all the 7 major notes on the musical scale sounds like?

 

[bennychico11]

it's knowing music theory...and learning from experience.
If a person who has learned all this hears a chord, they can analyze it in their head...tell if it's major or minor, hear the individual harmonies, know if the root is in the bass or if it's an inversion, guess where the next chord is going to be based on the progression and where the melody goes, knows the difference between neighboring and passing tones in melodies, knows leading tones usually denote where the chord is going to go (ie. the third of the V chord is going to lead up to the root of the I chord, etc.).
All this just comes from experience. You just sit down and peck away, like you're doing and you start to hear things a lot clearer. One way that helps me is I sing along with anything and everything. And I'll sit there and harmonize with whatever I'm hearing. I have terrible tone for a vocalist, but I know when I'm in tune or not and where the harmonies are. When you're driving in the car, just play around with harmonies when listening to the radio. Hell, I've even harmonized at work when playing a test tone! (I like singing clashing harmonies a quarter or half tone apart from the 1kHz sine wave. I'm sure it annoys the hell out of my co-workers )
I don't have perfect pitch and could never tell you if that note was an Ab or a C#. But knowing where to find the notes on the piano and when to know you've pressed the right note you're looking for is something that can come easily with practice. Then the rest of the notes just fall in place. Also, it helps when you've played a lot of scales or arpeggios on an instrument...it helps you hear passing/neighboring tones and leaps.

Remember, there is only 12 notes in western music...should be pretty easy to get 'em all, right? Right!

 

[Dani Pace]

Learning to recognize pitch by sound is something that takes practice, and lots of it. Listen to the notes carefully and pay particular attention to how they resonate in your head. Most people can learn to identify certain notes while they will never hear certain notes quite corectly. This has something to do with how sounds resonate in the inner ear and sinus cavities and explains why we find some notes pleasant and some annoy us. Always tune instruments to standard pitch, the more you hear a corect tone the sooner you will be able to identify it. Have patience, practice a lot, listen carefully, and in time you will begin to distinguish the differences and recognize the notes by the way they sound. Sorry, but there is no shortcut for this that I know of.

 

[gordone]

I don't have perfect pitch, but I can hear intervals pretty easily. Say I hear that the progression in a song is I-iii-IV-I, I then just have to pick up my guitar (or sit at the piano) and narrow down the key. So then I find out it's in A (for example, "The Weight" is what I had in mind for this example) and I replace the roman numerals with A C#m D A.

I can do the same thing for notes in the scale. I figure out the root and then I can hear if the next note is the fifth on the scale. I then figure out the key and voila - the notes are C and G. (since the C major scale is CDEFGAB)

Obviously these are simple examples, but show how you go from abstract intervals, which you can train yourself to recognize, to actual notes/chords.

If you know "most of" music theory, this shouldn't be too hard to learn.

 

[studiomaster]

I don't have perfect pitch, but I can hear intervals pretty easily. Say I hear that the progression in a song is I-iii-IV-I, I then just have to pick up my guitar (or sit at the piano) and narrow down the key. So then I find out it's in A (for example, "The Weight" is what I had in mind for this example) and I replace the roman numerals with A C#m D A.

I can do the same thing for notes in the scale. I figure out the root and then I can hear if the next note is the fifth on the scale. I then figure out the key and voila - the notes are C and G. (since the C major scale is CDEFGAB)

Obviously these are simple examples, but show how you go from abstract intervals, which you can train yourself to recognize, to actual notes/chords.

If you know "most of" music theory, this shouldn't be too hard to learn.

So basically, you figure out the root key of a song and then identify its fifth pitch on the scale? But its not always the fifth on the scale right? In your example, you said that C and G are the notes..but are these the notes played during the song?

Sorry guys..im just confused. Im weak at the theory part since i havent had proper training.

 

[bennychico11]

So basically, you figure out the root key of a song and then identify its fifth pitch on the scale? But its not always the fifth on the scale right? In your example, you said that C and G are the notes..but are these the notes played during the song?

Sorry guys..im just confused. Im weak at the theory part since i havent had proper training.

you just need to listen. gordone's way is one way of figuring it out. The root note helps denote the name of the chord...while the third helps name the type of chord it is (major or minor). And the fifth helps solidify what the chord is. Then of course, you add other notes to alter the chord so it doesn't sound the same all the time.
If you play a C chord (CEG) it is safe for you to assume that singing a C, E, or G note in the melody is going to sound correct...because those notes ARE in the chord you just played. This is how ear training works and how people are able to pick out notes so quickly. They know when playing a G chord which notes the melody may include....and they also know since they may have played a G major chord, that the other notes in the melody that are not in the chord should at least follow the G major SCALE (we call these passing and neighboring tones, depending on what the notes do).
Since you are playing a major chord, you want to follow the major scale. If you are playing a Cm7 chord (a minor chord with a lowered 7th)...you know that the scale it's based off of is minor and they threw in the 7th to help the chord sound more full!

Remember, to figure out a chord you basically need a minimum of three notes. The root, the third and the fifth. The root tells you the basis of the chord, the third tells you what type of chord and the fifth helps solidify the rest of the chord.

 

[studiomaster]

Makes sense..thanks for the response(s).

Umm..im currently trying to figure out the notation of this song(non-english). I 'believe' the tune goes like: E D C. However, since my ear sucks in picking up notes, i may not be correct at all. But i tried to match the notes with the song, and it sounds alright. So if i had to determine a chord from these 3 notes, would it be an E chord?

 

[gordone]

Nope, an E major triad consists of an E, G#, and a B (the I iii and V of the E major scale).

If you're in the key of C, the notes E,D,and C are the iii, ii and I of the C major scale. They really don't make up a "chord" per se.

Are you sure you know "most of" music theory? Chord construction from notes in a scale is pretty basic music theory...

 

[studiomaster]

Nope, an E major triad consists of an E, G#, and a B (the I iii and V of the E major scale).

If you're in the key of C, the notes E,D,and C are the iii, ii and I of the C major scale. They really don't make up a "chord" per se.

Are you sure you know "most of" music theory? Chord construction from notes in a scale is pretty basic music theory...

So it would be on the C major scale right? (CDEFGAB)
then there would be a root,second and third, right? and its necessary to have atleast a root,third and fifth to make up a chord so i guess this would not be a chord.

 

[bennychico11]

So it would be on the C major scale right? (CDEFGAB)
then there would be a root,second and third, right? and its necessary to have atleast a root,third and fifth to make up a chord so i guess this would not be a chord.

correct, those notes do fit in the C major scale. However, where are these notes in the song? Is this the melody you're giving us? They don't really make up a chord, however, if they are in the melody then it's okay because both C and E are in the Cmajor chord and D is just considered a passing tone.
And not to dive into more advanced chord study than you are probably ready for...but if you are hearing CDE in a CHORD, perhaps alongside other notes that you haven't mentioned, the D may also be considered the 9th of the chord, in which case there is probably also a 7th lurking somewhere. Very common in jazz. Chords are built on triads....so we start with the basis of our chord (first, third, fifth) and keep going up in triads to build the rest of the chord if need be (seventh, nineth, eleventh, etc.)

 

[studiomaster]

Yup..its the melody of the song. I tried by singing the tune in my head and playing the corresponding notes on my keyboard. So as you mentioned, when we determine chords, we always take the odd numbers in the musical scale right? like i,iii,iv etc...

So in this example, a possible chord could be Cmaj9?

 

[bennychico11]

So in this example, a possible chord could be Cmaj9?

yep, it's possible. It all depends on the style of music and what the rest of the band is playing. But more often than not is usually just a passing tone. Play a Cmaj9 chord (or a C9) on the piano and see if that part of the song sounds similar. The Cmaj9 is very melodic/jazzy...something you'd hear in a jazz ballad or something.
Also, see if you hear that D in any of the actual chords being played...not just the melody. If you don't hear it there, then it's probably just a C or C7 chord.
But yes, you can think of chords containing odd numbered intervals based on the root. At least the very basic chords are (which is most popular music). Things can get more confusing the more advanced you get.

 

[studiomaster]

After playing the Cmaj9 chord..it seems that my notations that i assumed is wrong. The song is actually on D. and goes like D C B.

By the way benny, did you get my PM?

 

[bennychico11]

After playing the Cmaj9 chord..it seems that my notations that i assumed is wrong. The song is actually on D. and goes like D C B.

By the way benny, did you get my PM?

yeah I did...I don't have MSN though. you can catch me through PM if you need.

So the melody goes DCB? Then my next guess (without actually hearing it) would be that it's a G chord of some sort. Think about it logically:
Does it sound major?
Since the melody doesn't have Bb (which is the first flat you'd encounter in any major chord with flats) and it doesn't have a C#...then best guess would be the chord has NO sharps or flats. Or if it does, then only one sharp would be in it (F#)...which I can't tell from the notes you've given
So that leaves us with either C major or G major. And since the melody seems to end on a B....the most logical guess would be a G major chord of some sort.

Again, this is all speculation because giving us three notes of the melody is not enough to really guess what it is. But this is the basic thought process you need to go through. So try a G major chord.

 

[studiomaster]

Is there any way i can send you the song i am currently working on? Even though its non-english, im sure you can identify the notes used.

 

[bennychico11]

Is there any way i can send you the song i am currently working on? Even though its non-english, im sure you can identify the notes used.

you can upload it to lightningmp3.com...I'll give it a shot if I have some free time, but you should really try to do it on your own some more. It's the only way you're going to learn.

 

[studiomaster]

Here is the link I uploaded the song into:

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=3376