Drywall is up need some guidance on finishing...

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Less a few little cuts the drywall is installed. I am exhausted from climbing my ladders for nights on end. What should I use for sealing the joints? Honestly, I would like to do as little as possible to get it finished. I used resilient channel and I think I need to use something flexible but I'm at a loss for what that is. Can I use caulk? Is there special mud? Depending on the initial sound tests I might have to add another layer.

Okay, some more questions.

Does the contents of the room have any effect on soundproofing? For instance, heavy carpeting and padding, bass traps and theater curtains. Reflections and standing waves n' such can certainly give the perception of higher volume but can it equate to greater volume outside the space if not totally soundproof?

Perhaps that is for another thread but I will see what this gets me.

thanks, RD
 
RD,

Mud and tape all your joints the conventional way. At the junction between your walls and the floor, run a bead of silicone-based caulk. Also caulk any other gaps at window, door, duct, electrical box, etc. penetrations. What you're looking for is a complete air seal.

Alex
 
On your other question, the way absorption works, is that it converts sound energy to heat energy. So, whatever portion of sound that doesn't go completely through your absorption and out thru the walls, gets converted to heat.

If you can't hear heat from outside the room, the sound level will be less because of absorption.

I'm not sure how MUCH difference this makes, but the theory says you can't destroy energy, only convert it to another type. So, any sound you convert to heat thru absorption (bass traps for example) is no longer sound, but heat, and therefore silent.

Or at least, that's what the books say... Steve
 
Thanks for the replies. I have been a little confused from what I have read about using RC and was thinking the entire wall may need flexible material. I understand the wall as a unit is okay (regular tape and mud) but places where it contacts fixed structures (floor, plumbing) needs a flexible seal.

All of my electrical is surface mount. The circuits all come through one large piece of flex conduit and distribute from inside the space.

I think standing waves are what give a room a boomy sound. Can the boomy sound translate into increased volume on the outside? Or is it just a local perception. Theoretically I understand it is imossible for a reflection to be louder than the source. Is it possible (common) for a structure to focus(?) certain frequencies and make them seem (or really be) louder?

I can hear myself talking to the police "see, the place is totally soundproof but because of the structure, the person who called is only perceiving that they hear music when actually they aren't. You have to take my word for it, really. The sound they think they are hearing is not from me because we are totally sound proof..., er my name... ah yes and my address... well, yes I have identification..., yeah but you must understand if I soundproofed any more the resulting heat conversion would really set off this global warming thing. Would you rather they call to complain about the heat? ...okay, yes, I, I and ... yeah we'll keep it down..."

Is there a way that bass traps inside the room can noticably add to absorbtion? That may be a rediculous question but I am trying to understand this stuff.

Thanks again, RD
 
If you know someone who is a drywall man, ask them what they would charge to just do your seams!

It would be worth the price, because that is the hardest part of drywall. I'm a custom houspainter in the $1,000,000+ range (the price of the houses that is, not what I CHARGE:D) and I still have to do tons of drywall repair.
Mudding the nail holes is no big deal, just buy a metal mudpan and a 4" mudblade and you are set! Just keep it thin, and remember that it's better to apply several coats than to have to spend house sand it off!

How you seam a joint, is with seaming tape and drywall mud.
You'll need a fairly wide drywall mudblade. For the corners, you bend the tape in half so that it fits into the corner.
I would seriously find somebody to do it, and watch them do it, so that you can learn.

Sometimes people use this nylon "web" type of material, but in the work professional that I see (on a daily basis, normally 6 days a week)-it's still drywall tape that is being used.


I tried doing my room, and man it was a nightmare (at 21, I was sure I could do it!:D DING!! Wrong answer Now 13 years and 1,200 houses later, I finally got it down!). It just looked like crap. Since then, I've spent years in construction and learned a lot about how it's done, but if you want it to look pro, you have 2 ways to go about it:

#1. HIRE someone to do it.

#2. Go to your local D.I.Y. center, and see oif they offer classes on how to do it (Home Depot has classes on Saturday moenings on how to do stuff like this.)
Also check your local community college, or the local Builder's Association if you don't have a Home Depot in your area giving classes.

THEN, once you've taken that class, go volunteer to do some work for "Habitat for Humanity", and tell them "I'll Volunteer to do some work for you, but I want to be involved in the Drywall installation, because I'm trying to learn how it's done."

They get your help, you get on the job training.

If you intend to paint the walls, put up a coat of flat paint(get it tinted to the collor that you intend for your final coat!) as a primer/sealer, then lightly sand the walls before putting up 2 top coats, and lightly sand the walls beteewn those coats with 220 grit sandpaper(all you are doing here is knocking down the texture a bit), and your paintjob will feel like velvet and look like a million bucks!


Yes, you can use caulk for around pipes and things like that, but make sure it isn't just pure "silicone", otherwise you won't be able to paint it - EVER. And get white caulk! Clear caulk has a high amount of silicone, and the paint won't stick to it very well.



Tim
 
Wow! Thankd for all that info.

More and more I am thinking of paying someone to do it. It is a very big job and would take me way too long to do it. The ceiling alone is over 900 feet and about 600 feet of wall. On the otherhand, the size could make it cost prohibitive to hire someone.

My drummer loves to paint and is very meticulous so maybe a nice finish would really give him something to be proud of.

Cheers,
RD
 
Tim gave a pretty good account of what mudding is going to take to do, but, it isn't quite as bad as he makes it out to be, even though I thoroughly hate doing it myself...:D

This should give you a pretty good mud job.

Use regular tape in corners. Use the webbing type of tape on wall seems. The reason I say use the webbing stuff on wall seems is that it is much easier to get to lay down smooth. In the corners, it doesn't work at all.

Wall seams:

Don't bother with the heavy duty type of joint compond. Use the light compond. It actually doesn't hurt to water it down just a tiny bit. It is easier to work with then, and you have a bit more working time before drying and you being a beginner, this will be important! :D

Apply the webbing tape to the seam. Then, with a 6" flat blade, apply a thick enough coat to cover at least 95% of that tape. Make sure that you don't have really heavy built up edges. Smooth those down in a way that does not create craters in the mud. A little build up isn't too hard to knock down, but craters are annoying.

Wait to dry. Go back with your blade and scrap off what little build up's on the edges you can knock off easily. At this point, that is all you have to do.

You next coat will be applied with a 8" or 10" blade. I prefer 10", but 8" will work okay too. 10" is a little harder to work with, but helps "fan out" the mud a little better. Maybe you should stick with the 8" blade.

Apply the mud again. This time, you really need to make sure that you have full coverage over the tape on the seam. You want a pretty consistent thickness across the whole width of the blade, and you really want NO craters in the mud. This will take some practice to do right. If you have some tiny craters, don't sweat them too much as long as the consistency of the rest of the mud is good and you don't have ugly edges.

Let dry. At this point, what you do depends on how well you did the last coat. If your edges don't have a huge build up, again, you can pretty much just take your blade and knock off the build up on the edges. If it is built up pretty high, it might be time for a bit of sanding. If you have to sand (and I feel sorry for you if you do) make sure you wear some kind of protective suit over your clothing and a FACE MASK!!! Also, don't waste your time on trying to make a sanding screen last a long time. When it quite knocking off a lot of mud, REPLACE IT!!! Let the sanding screen do the work FOR YOU!!! Sand the edges so that they are fairly close to being smoothed out to the drywall. You will need to sweep down the seam afterwards to get rid of dust. Clean up your floor and proceed.

Next coat, use a 12" blade. At this point, you are mostly concerned with filling in any craters and smoothing out the edges as much as possible. With a little practice (you should have plenty of practice by now! :D) you will have your blade angles down to get a nice smooth run of mud.

Let dry. If your build up is still kind of high on the edges, sand a LITTLE again. But, only a little.

Get a 5 gallon bucket and fill it with water and get one of those really big heavy duty sponges. Dip the sponge and only wring out enough water to keep it from dripping all over the place. Wipe down and fan out your edges with the sponge. It won't take you too long to know how far you need to do this. Wet sponging is the one thing that will give you very good results and is far less messy than sanding. You will be wringing out your sponge a lot and replacing the water a lot with fresh water, but it isnt that big of a deal.

Vola! You should have your edges of your mud blended out about 6" either side of the seam, and it should look very "feathery" and smooth. If you need to do a little touch up mudding, at this point, spackle will be much easier to work with and will dry faster. Touch up as needed.

If you are going to texture the walls, you don't need to be quite as anal about smoothing out the edges as much as if you would be if the walls will have no texture (I love a textured wall! :D less work!)

Corners:

Pretty much the same type of deal as doing other seams, BUT, you have to use regular drywall tape, which means that you have to apply a little bit of mud BEFORE you put the tape on, and then you have to put mud over the tape. When applying the tape to the mud, you HAVE to make sure that you get the tape down as smooth as possible. The webbing type of tape is easy to do this with because of the "holes" in it, but regular tape doesn't have "holes". If you can't get it to lay flat at some place, poke a little hole at the center of the "hump" so that the mud below can seep out. Remember, the tape need to be as flat as possible, but you also have to make sure that it get's 100% buried in mud too.

Corners are hard, and pretty much, you will be doing more sanding on them then you do on seams. Just do the best you can with applying the mud as smooth as possible. Use a 6", and 8" blade. You will probably elect to sand between all coat. Wet sponging at the end will make it all blend out really well. Remember, if you are going to texture, you don't have to be as anal. You just don't want a big "lip" between the mud and the drywall if you are going to texture. If you don't texture, then you need to have it feathered out very smooth. The hardest part about corners is that if you try to do both "sides" of the corner at the same time, you will probably put craters in the mud of a side you just did trying to do the other side. Those corner blades are okay at avoiding this, but they are very tricky to use. So, if you have the time, you might consider doing one side of the corners one day, then the other side the next day after the first side dries. Yes, it will take twice as long per coat, but it will be easier to do in the end.

Anyway, mudding sucks even when you know what you are doing. Take your time and don't give up. Sanding sucks, but it can fix just about anything "bad" that you do while applying the mud, so most important, just get the tape 100% covered, and make sure you have mud on the drywall far enough away from the seems and corners so that you can feather the mud out.

Good luck. LOL

Ed
 
Ed, you amaze me...................a man of many talents:)

Actually, this could have been a whole new thread.........maybe titled something like........"I will finally share some secrets about mudding" :D

Regards,

ChrisO :cool:
 
rcktdg said:


I think standing waves are what give a room a boomy sound. Can the boomy sound translate into increased volume on the outside? Or is it just a local perception. Theoretically I understand it is imossible for a reflection to be louder than the source. Is it possible (common) for a structure to focus(?) certain frequencies and make them seem (or really be) louder?


For whatever it's worth I honestly believe, If something "sounds" louder, it's probably well...louder. I was just talking about this in another post. My drums in my room are almost twice as loud now with drywall, than when it was just insulation. An echo is a double, No? Two drums are louder than one, No?
Just to seal them up good, I would Mud and tape all your joints to the point that the tape won't peel back off over time. Your talking two or three coats, Ed had it right. I like the paper tape though. It's a little trickier to apply, But I think it seals better and sands easier (if your gonna sand).
One seam at a time, put some mud right on the seam all along the wall. Then lay the tape over it.
Next run a 6 or 8 or 10" knife over the tape in the direction the seam runs, you want to squeeze the mud out from behind the tape. Be careful because you'll have mud oozing out and it will drop right to floor. If that happens just let it harden and it will flake right off. If you have enough mud behind the tape on the wall it will stick to the wall like glue. Don't try to coat over the tape until it dries, it's very hard to do.
After it dries the next day, knock any nubs off with your knife, and coat "over" the tape. Let it dry, knock any nubs off and coat it again until your confident the tape won't ever peel as I'm sure you've seen in some houses.
And F#@* sanding. Put some homasote over it, and then put those 12"X 12" pieces of auralex over your seams.
I'm not saying you should do that because it's what Im doing. I'm at the same point your are with my room. My electric is'nt surface mounted though. After careful consideration and alot of conversations with alot of people (not just any people). Contractors, Carpenters, Sound engineers, architects, I've come to this conclusion. I started this room from the ground, I designed it myself. My partner and I built it all ourselves at our own pace. And were very pleased so far. Hope I did'nt step on anyones toes :confused:

Check this out http://homasote.com


Goodluck,

T.J.Hooker:cool:
 
sonusman said:
Tim gave a pretty good account of what mudding is going to take to do, but, it isn't quite as bad as he makes it out to be, even though I thoroughly hate doing it myself...:D

Good luck. LOL

Ed

Ed,
you haven't seen the guys I have to work after!:D:D:D

Oh man, you would THINK that when you moved "up" into working on more expensive houses, that the other trades would have a better quality of work, but for some reason the drywall men and framers are lagging locally!
I'm thinking about moving into drywall work. I know a guy who is making $1,500 a week as a drywall man, and he's not any better at it than I am! And that's a sad thing. I just had to learn to do it because I was working behind all these Honyock crews.

(From Tim's dictionary)

Honyock- (hawn-yock); any idiot redneck construction worker who who uses any of the following phrases:

1. "You can't see it from my house"
2. "That's good enough!"
3. "Beat into place, caulk to paint, painter's do what carpenter's cain't!"
4. "Break out a hammer and make it fit, the painter's know how to polish this shit!"


:D:D:D


Tim
 
Tim, I hear you! I have done a good share of painting over newer drywall jobs. Absolutely horrible work in many cases regardless of the price of the home!

Most trades come down to taking pride in doing a good job. So many of these new construction companies are having to compete with "start ups" that offer WAAAAAAAY to low of a bid just to get the work, so they cheeseball the job to get it done at that price and still make a profit. If that means leaving a little for the painter to "touch up", well, they figure "fuck the painter, I gotta make a few bucks here ya know!".


Ed
 
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