J
Jacobsy
New member
what would you choose, and why?
D
drumgeek
New member
Welcome, Jacobsy!
A little more info about your situation would be helpful. Do you already play or are you thinking about starting? Will someone else be playing for you? What type of music are you wanting to record? What kind of recording setup do you have? Etc...
I've used both, and each has their pros and cons depending upon the type of music. What are you wanting to do?
A little more info about your situation would be helpful. Do you already play or are you thinking about starting? Will someone else be playing for you? What type of music are you wanting to record? What kind of recording setup do you have? Etc...
I've used both, and each has their pros and cons depending upon the type of music. What are you wanting to do?
Tim Brown
New member
Well, it would depend upon the situation.
I am a drummer, and I learned how to program a drum machine in the late 80's. My favorite machine is the Roland R-8, it has decent sounds that sound somewhat real, and it has an output for every instrument.
Depending upon what i am doing, I have no problem programming the machine instead of playing the part....my rule is, I simply don't do anything I can't pull off on the kit, which keeps the drumbeats very real.
The real key to a drum machine is learning to program it like a drummer plays...things like no hi-hat during tom rolls, etc.
Tim
I am a drummer, and I learned how to program a drum machine in the late 80's. My favorite machine is the Roland R-8, it has decent sounds that sound somewhat real, and it has an output for every instrument.
Depending upon what i am doing, I have no problem programming the machine instead of playing the part....my rule is, I simply don't do anything I can't pull off on the kit, which keeps the drumbeats very real.
The real key to a drum machine is learning to program it like a drummer plays...things like no hi-hat during tom rolls, etc.
Tim
D
Diragor
New member
When I've used a drum machine I've usually gone in the opposite direction from the "keep it real" approach. I'm a drummer myself but I purposely did things that would be impossible (or at least very difficult) for a live drummer. There were songs with two or three different snare and kick sounds, and some of those were even layered with different sounds from a Boss DR-5 drum machine and an Alesis D4. It totally depends on what you're going for. If you were demoing songs meant to be played live by a simple 4-piece rock band then my approach would be a bad idea.
Riverdog
New member
I don't know...
I've been a drummer since I was about ten.... (I'm 35 now...)
I'd say the other responses here are right...
The big question is - what are your intensions?
I've done both techniques (Being very real and being very off the wall)...
Unfortunately, I only have a drum machine (Alesis DM5) and play it with a keyboard that I have in my studio... I play drums for a few bands and at our local church... (They've got a really nice Mapex set)... I'm very interested in picking up a small electonic set with good feel to run my DM5 at home...
But, anyone who's sat behind one of Roland's premeire "V-tech" sets will attest that for electronic drums (For me anyway)... Those TAKE THE CAKE!
I'd say most drum machines nowadays are capable of providing very real results... I'd ALSO say that nothing beats a good oak Tama or Gretsch either!
Follow your own heart and really look at what and where you're going to be playing... A good electronic set can offer numerous advantages if playing in churches or small local pubs (volume control - Large tone pallete for different sets) / Or working on cutting edge material that requires "something different" of the average drummer...
But, - Then once again... If you're playing rock or can mic a good set, A good set of "true skins" will be a good starting point as well...
Good Luck...
Riverdog
www.homepage.mac.com/riverdog
I've been a drummer since I was about ten.... (I'm 35 now...)
I'd say the other responses here are right...
The big question is - what are your intensions?
I've done both techniques (Being very real and being very off the wall)...
Unfortunately, I only have a drum machine (Alesis DM5) and play it with a keyboard that I have in my studio... I play drums for a few bands and at our local church... (They've got a really nice Mapex set)... I'm very interested in picking up a small electonic set with good feel to run my DM5 at home...
But, anyone who's sat behind one of Roland's premeire "V-tech" sets will attest that for electronic drums (For me anyway)... Those TAKE THE CAKE!
I'd say most drum machines nowadays are capable of providing very real results... I'd ALSO say that nothing beats a good oak Tama or Gretsch either!
Follow your own heart and really look at what and where you're going to be playing... A good electronic set can offer numerous advantages if playing in churches or small local pubs (volume control - Large tone pallete for different sets) / Or working on cutting edge material that requires "something different" of the average drummer...
But, - Then once again... If you're playing rock or can mic a good set, A good set of "true skins" will be a good starting point as well...
Good Luck...
Riverdog
www.homepage.mac.com/riverdog
M
mikeh
New member
Since this is a recording site, I'll assume you are questioning accoustic drums vs. drum machine for recording purposes.
A key factor is your recording environment (ie: the room). A major part of a good drum sound is the room the drums are in. You can have a good sounding kit and a poor sounding room will compromise the recorded sound. Obviously, any drum track is only as good as the performace.
Most people prefer real drums - but in addition to a good sounding room you need mics, cables, stands, inputs on your recording machine, compression etc. etc. Although you may be able to get a decent sound with one room mic (assuming a good sounding room) most people lean toward a minimum of 3 mics).
I've been drumming for close to 40 years and I have some very good accoustic drums (including a maple kit and a birch kit) - but I have a poor sounding room so I use a set of V-drums. However, like Tim Brown I also learned how to program drum machines back in the 80's (I was losing alot of studion kgigs to drum machines - so if you can't beat em' join em') and I own several drum machines/modules).
I agree with what everyone else has said, but you really need to figure out what you want/need from your drum tracks before there can be a correct answer to your question.
A key factor is your recording environment (ie: the room). A major part of a good drum sound is the room the drums are in. You can have a good sounding kit and a poor sounding room will compromise the recorded sound. Obviously, any drum track is only as good as the performace.
Most people prefer real drums - but in addition to a good sounding room you need mics, cables, stands, inputs on your recording machine, compression etc. etc. Although you may be able to get a decent sound with one room mic (assuming a good sounding room) most people lean toward a minimum of 3 mics).
I've been drumming for close to 40 years and I have some very good accoustic drums (including a maple kit and a birch kit) - but I have a poor sounding room so I use a set of V-drums. However, like Tim Brown I also learned how to program drum machines back in the 80's (I was losing alot of studion kgigs to drum machines - so if you can't beat em' join em') and I own several drum machines/modules).
I agree with what everyone else has said, but you really need to figure out what you want/need from your drum tracks before there can be a correct answer to your question.
tvaillan
New member
Similar situation and our solution.
First off, my quest for the ultimate drum machine.
I set off to find the ultimate drum machine:
- drumrolls
- use samples, not midi
- odd time signatures
- easy to program (i'm a guitarist!)
The quest yeilded:
... drumroll ...
PROPELLERHEAD REASON
Superior interface, superior sound (fruity loops? what the hell is that???)
Propellerhead for me is the be all end all of computer drum machines. I've tried them all including fruity loops.
However!!!!
Programing the damn thing was fun, but not being a drumer, i simply couldn't get kick ass beats. I managed to get some beats and rolls and what not and it sounded GREAT, made a few tunes .. but my programming and knowledge of beats limited my music.
The answer?
Well the whole reason that i was looking for a drum machine to begin with was that myself and my drumer both live in apartments and he can't play his Tama's (or are they Pearl ..hrmm)...
So after being frustrated with programming beats, we said what the f***! .. and purchased a PINTECH electronik kit and Roland drum module. Now we jam full blast in my appartment using a headphone preamp.
PINTECH rocks!
So! if you like drum machines .. get Propellerhead reason for your PC otherwise, go for an electronic kit.
A full pintech kit without module is 999$ US right now.
2 dual zone cymbals with choke
1 snare
3 toms
1 kick pad (no pedal)
1 dual zone high hat
1 hi hat pedal
drum stand
I am not a salesman. I'm just excited cause we got our kit last week and we've already used it for jaming and recording tracks.
First off, my quest for the ultimate drum machine.
I set off to find the ultimate drum machine:
- drumrolls
- use samples, not midi
- odd time signatures
- easy to program (i'm a guitarist!)
The quest yeilded:
... drumroll ...
PROPELLERHEAD REASON
Superior interface, superior sound (fruity loops? what the hell is that???)
Propellerhead for me is the be all end all of computer drum machines. I've tried them all including fruity loops.
However!!!!
Programing the damn thing was fun, but not being a drumer, i simply couldn't get kick ass beats. I managed to get some beats and rolls and what not and it sounded GREAT, made a few tunes .. but my programming and knowledge of beats limited my music.
The answer?
Well the whole reason that i was looking for a drum machine to begin with was that myself and my drumer both live in apartments and he can't play his Tama's (or are they Pearl ..hrmm)...
So after being frustrated with programming beats, we said what the f***! .. and purchased a PINTECH electronik kit and Roland drum module. Now we jam full blast in my appartment using a headphone preamp.
PINTECH rocks!
So! if you like drum machines .. get Propellerhead reason for your PC otherwise, go for an electronic kit.
A full pintech kit without module is 999$ US right now.
2 dual zone cymbals with choke
1 snare
3 toms
1 kick pad (no pedal)
1 dual zone high hat
1 hi hat pedal
drum stand
I am not a salesman. I'm just excited cause we got our kit last week and we've already used it for jaming and recording tracks.
nave
Cave Relic
I've been using fruity loops for only about a week or so with great results...I've used many drum sequencing programs and modules in the past....mostly the boss stuff.....With fruity you can load accoustic samples (real recorded drum kits) and programming how anyway you want.....This allows you to mix and match pieces from different sets and get many different real accoustic sounds that would be difficult to get from recording real live drums......You'd really have to have a handle on recording, the room, the mic placement, the tuning of the drums etc...etc...etc....With a program like fruity you can bypass all that stuff because it's all taken care of for you already....which could be either and advantage or a disadvantage depending on how you see it.....The thing is that are hundreds accoustic kit sounds at your disposal and theoretically you should be able to find any sound you want once your sample collection grows.....I posted in this forum in regards to samples the other day and people responded giving me their own samples, I surfed online and found samples of real kits.....etc...etc...within a two week period I have about a hundred different live samples of each type of drum, recorded in just about every possible way you could record drums.....different drum kits, different types of inflections on the single hits, different mics, different rooms etc...etc...all that is not going to be at your disposal with just your kit, your room and your mic collection, no matter how big or great they are.....And if you are good at programing drums there is nothing stopping you from making a drum pattern sound as real as any real kit could be......It just takes patience dedication and time....
J
Jacobsy
New member
hey thanks for yer answers - they have been helpful. by the way, i have decided to buy a drumset. (and to use my computer for drum sequencing, when needed)
/jacobsy
/jacobsy
VOXVENDOR
New member
Why Buy when you can make them?
www.electronicdrums.com
I just finished mine, and they are great... I love em..
www.electronicdrums.com
I just finished mine, and they are great... I love em..
tvaillan
New member
making drums
Hey VOXVENDOR,
How'd you figure out dual zone and cymbal choke?
I haven't made a whole drumset but i too have made a 'drum' using nothing more than a Remo practice pad, a peizo from radioshack, some 'ruber glue' , a bottom of a coffee tin, medium gauge speaker wire and a mono jack.
The damn thing works! It works well. It ain't a pintech concertcast drum but it certainly works very well with my Roland drum module and has become a permanent adition to my drumset.
I'm using it as a large cymbal (non chokeable) and sometimes a tom.
I'd love t get my hands on an Alesis DM5 to supplement my Roland drum module with a bunch of homemade toms and cymbals. ... if only they where dual zone.
Hey VOXVENDOR,
How'd you figure out dual zone and cymbal choke?
I haven't made a whole drumset but i too have made a 'drum' using nothing more than a Remo practice pad, a peizo from radioshack, some 'ruber glue' , a bottom of a coffee tin, medium gauge speaker wire and a mono jack.
The damn thing works! It works well. It ain't a pintech concertcast drum but it certainly works very well with my Roland drum module and has become a permanent adition to my drumset.
I'm using it as a large cymbal (non chokeable) and sometimes a tom.
I'd love t get my hands on an Alesis DM5 to supplement my Roland drum module with a bunch of homemade toms and cymbals. ... if only they where dual zone.
VOXVENDOR
New member
I use live cymbals.... So, I never made those....
'tis a good question though.
My kit is very close to the design of Rick Allen's (Def Leppard)... except I have both my arms and don't use my feet for the snare.
I am however thinking of putting about 1-2 pedals on the floor to trigger other things, like cowbells etc, so both my arms are free for other stuff...
I have 5 pads... 1 snare and 4 toms, and I use a real bass drum, with a mesh head on it, and a trigger......
I love it....
But, I would never use synthetic cymbals..... Even those expensive V-Drums have really sucky cymbals.....In my opinion.
In my opinion, synthetic (sampled) cymbals, are only good if you have to be quiet and play with headphones....
Stick with your real live cymbals if you can...
Joe
'tis a good question though.
My kit is very close to the design of Rick Allen's (Def Leppard)... except I have both my arms and don't use my feet for the snare.
I am however thinking of putting about 1-2 pedals on the floor to trigger other things, like cowbells etc, so both my arms are free for other stuff...
I have 5 pads... 1 snare and 4 toms, and I use a real bass drum, with a mesh head on it, and a trigger......
I love it....
But, I would never use synthetic cymbals..... Even those expensive V-Drums have really sucky cymbals.....In my opinion.
In my opinion, synthetic (sampled) cymbals, are only good if you have to be quiet and play with headphones....
Stick with your real live cymbals if you can...
Joe