drums sounds - miking and tuning

[dcptnsdcvd]

ok, i hate to sound like a copy cat, and i've already been told i like these guys too much for my own good, but...
does anyone here happen to have any knowledge of Danny Carey (drummer for Tool) or Mike Portnoy's (Dream Theater's drummer) tuning techniques or miking techniques?? I wanna know what these guys are doing to make they're recordings sound professional.
i dunno if any of you guys are familiar with either of these guys, but i HIGHLY recomend you give their latest albums a listen. Excelent recordings and overall drum sounds on Tool's last 2 albums, Ænima and Lateralus (latest one). And no matter how unoriginal it may be, i want my drums to sound that clear, as if your in the same room with the drums. i have my own kinda sound due to tuning and whatnot, but i do know what i like and thats it, lol.
Dream Theater's latest albums, Metropolis 2: Scenes from a Memory, and their newest album 6 Degrees of inner turbulence have great drum sounds. Tool's sounds are a little more exotic due to Danny Carey's tuning styles and playing styles, but DT's stuff is a perfect example of everyday rock tunings and stuff, recorded with perfection, if you ask me. only a matter of opinion.
And i wonder if anyone else sees things this way: No matter how i try, my recordings don;t ever sound as clear or as "proffessional" as that which i'm hearing on these albums (or any profeesional level band's albums for that matter) I don;t know how to explain it, maybe the words is clarity, lack of noise, or oh i dunno, but it's just not the same. I wish i could explain myself better. I suppose they just don;t sound the way they're "supposed" to.
what could i be doing wrong?

 

[Bass Master "K"]

I went and saw Tool with my buddy who is a drummer, on their last tour. Two things blew me away about their drummer. One, he didn't make a freaking mistake the whole show...with all the off-beat stuff he does I was curious as to how he would recover if he made a mistake. The second one may me more applicable to your post: He used electronic drums for all of his toms, at a minimum, and I suspect the bass drum was triggered as well.

My buddy was blown away because he is always searching for the "tool" sound as well and he has always badmouthed electronic drums/triggered drums. He does that no more.... (as a matter of fact on our last demo he used a triggered bass drum and got the perfect "click" he was looking for.)

I realise that this was for a live performance and recording the album may have been a totally different story, but if he is comfortable with the sound he is getting with them on tour then he may very well be using them in recordings.

Sad thing is, unless the engineers for the albums post here, you will probably not be able to find out for sure. Good luck in your search. If you find it, please post it.

 

[Uladine]

This could be wrong, but I think I read a post on the BBS about how Danny got his sounds on Ænima. The guy who wrote the post (I can't remember who) said that the engineer would mic up the drums and be very picky about placement and all that, then instead of running them straight to the board, they'd run it through a P.A. system and EQ everything perfectly, and then there would be tons of room mics that picked up the over all sound. (How they mixed the drums later I have no idea.) I am not sure if this is really how they did it or if they did it on all the songs, or maybe just one song, or maybe part of one song, but thats what I've heard. Maybe the original poster will find this thread and give you better info than I can or correct me if I'm wrong. If it is true, though, it would be kind of a bummer because you would need a perfect room to simulate this sound.

As a side note, one time when recording drums we were using a trigger on the kick, but I was bothered by how obviously fake it sounded, so we "borrowed" the above technique and ran the trigger through a small P.A. and close-mic'd one of the speakers as if it were the kick drum. It sounded much less electronic and was pretty cool.

On another side note, another similar technique I've read about but haven't practiced regarding P.A. systems and drum rec'ing, is putting the drums on a small wooden riser with subwoofers beneath it. You would mic the kick up like normal, but then also run a second kick mic into a P.A. and pump it through subwoofers beneath the drum riser. If you've ever played drums on an uncarpeted wooden drum riser, you know how such it can amplify the low end of a kick drum. Just imagine the hugeness you'd get from having subwoofers beneath it.

Ok I'm done.