drummer timing

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DFMJoe

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I was wondering how you all get ur drummer to keep up with the correct time. People have suggested a metronome.. but our songs have alot of speed changes in them, which is also why he gets throwed off when we record. He's fine when we all play.. but we've tried recording guitar first and that doesn't help. Any suggestions?

and also.. is this recording setup ok for drums?

we have the shure drum mic kit.. that we borrowed from friend so not too sure what kind they are.. but they are shure, the kit with 5 mics from musicians friend. We have 1 on the kick, 1 on the snare, and 2 over heads.

we have those running to a peavey mixer... all except the snare mic.

we are recording with the fostex mr8, so i only have 2 tracks to work with simultaneously.. so the 3 mics that are running to the mixer go to track one.. and the snare mic direct to the recorder. How does that sound?
 
A metronome would be a good idea to work with. I myself have trouble with timing. Because I play the guitar as well, it is hard to decide which to record first, but because it almost seems logical, I record guitar first. The only suggestion that I have for you is that you record live, because it seemed like the only way for you to be in cue with each other. A good function I like using on the MR-8 is the click timer/meter. Have you tried playing around with the tempo map on it? Hope everything works out for you!
 
How many tempo changes are in your song? My band has recorded a song with one tempo change. What we did was record the metronome on a track. We counted measures to know when the change occured. We then recorded the drums for the first half and stopped, then puched in drums and I played with the metronome live for the last half.
 
Enrique said:
Because I play the guitar as well, it is hard to decide which to record first, but because it almost seems logical, I record guitar first.
Click to expand...

Strange, I always record the drums first. Then I can playback the drum track and practice jamming the guitar part. That way I can get used to the timing 'irregularities', and get the whole thing souning more together
 
Use a computer sequencer to make a tempo map. Just grab a clave or sidestick sample, and lay it out on 1 2 3 4. Use the tempo adjuster for all your tempo changes, and then export it as a wave file, and import that into your recorder. You could also burn it to a cd, and then plug a cd player into your mixer. Then have the guitar player play along with the drummer and click track, but only record the drums. :)
 
If recording the guitar first, I'd at least do some kind of click track. If a metronome isn't available, you can use a beat from a cheap casio keyboard. It's not like anyone's gonna hear it, you just need something keeping down the constant 4/4 (or whatever) time that you can erase later.

What kind of time changes are we talking about here? Is it like going into different time signatures and stuff? If it's simply slowing down and speeding up, there's a chance the same metronome setting will work out. If you're playing half as fast, it'll just be double the number of clicks ...

It sounds like my band has a similar set up to you. We go through a mixer into a 8 track with only 2 input capabilites. We prefer to put down drums first. It goes like this. I plug my guitar and a mic into an old four track and crank 'em. The drummer listens to the four track with headphones and we go through the song like that. It can be a tad distracting because I'll be singing and playing and not able to hear what I'm doing. But what we get is a separated drum take that retains some of that "band in a room" feel.

If you don't have the extra four track lying around, a headphone amp will work. I just like four track because you've got more channels and the drummer gets to hear the vocals and stuff along with the guitar.
 
I typically watch the strumming arm for the "main" guitarist...usually I can only see the elbow (as he would have his back to me on stage) however if the guitarist plays with his wrist it can be a problem :)... in which case I usually have the drooling bassest to go off of...

You might want to try airguitaring the part for him but most drummers have to track first because it seems to be hard to overdub... I guess... I play better last...
 
If you are talking about recording, that's one thing. You should record the drums first against a scratch guitar track and then layer in the other tracks later and follow the drummer's beat.
If you are talking about live, well that's another thing. You're not in your own little world when you're playing with each other, you're communicating.
You should always be listening to each other as timing s NOT like a metronome, it's fluid. Many shifts will take place in a piece and you're all supposed to be working together. When the timing goes awry it's always the drummer that gets blamed. One of the main reasons that you rehearse together is so you get to KNOW each other and can almost anticipate changes.
The thing that I find so irritating about recording in layered multi-tracks is how that communication if not lost entirely becomes second hand and removed. Sometimes it works really well when you can record the drummer and bass player together against a scratch lead or melody track. Drummers and bassists feed off of each other and can lay the foundation nicely for you.
 
We recorded our first cd with a cheap drum track from a casio keybord, because we wanted to record the guitar first, and he didnt like the click track. He was more comfortable with a cheesy drum sound, and your right, not like anyone heard it. Then we went back and added real drums much later. Get a free demo of fruity loops, it is pretty easy to construct drum tracks in also.
 
For recording..... I lay down a click track that has acoustic guitar, vocal, and click drums (casio keyboard, or alesis unit) together on one track...... to be thrown away eventually. Then play drums, then bass, then rhythm guitar. I almost always do it in that order. Then I'll play assorted guitars and keybaords, harmonica or whatever. Then when I'm really ready to ruin it... I put my vocal on it :)

You do lose the communication as mentioned when tracking one instrument at a time.... unless it is the same guy doing all of them. Then you just have to make the right side of your brain communicate with the left side :)
 
DFMJoe said:
I was wondering how you all get ur drummer to keep up with the correct time.
Click to expand...
I keep extra drumsticks handy and when he goes off-time, I whack him with it....

I've tried other things like bats, canes, tambourines, other assorted percussion, but they didn't seem to work so I tried drumsticks..... that worked -- drummers understand drumsticks!

:p
 
LOL..... That was a funny post.

I play drums most every weekend. Nobody wacks me with anything.... but our bass player (old guy who has played with Della Reese) gives me the evil eye every now and then.
 
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