Drum Trigger cables (balanced or unbalanced)?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Clintage
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Clintage

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I'll make this quick...

Acoustic drum triggers going into Alesis DM5...
Balanced (trs-trs 1/4") cable or can standard unbalanced 1/4" cable be used?
If both can be used, is there any added functional benefits for using balanced as opposed to unbalanced?
:eek:

Thanks!

Clintage
 
The big difference would be that the balanced cable will have 6db more signal. (assuming that the DM5 inputs are balanced) The unbalanced will work but you will have to turn up the trigger gain to make everything equal.
 
Cool! Thanks! But other than that, there would be no problem having an unbalanced cable work correctly with triggers, correct?
 
Unbalanced worked fine on mine.
edit: worked fine on my dm5, i have no idea how your triggers work.

Daav.
 
Clintage said:
Cool! Thanks! But other than that, there would be no problem having an unbalanced cable work correctly with triggers, correct?
Click to expand...
That is correct. What triggers do you use?
 
Well, I hit up a package deal on Musicians Friend. Buy the DM5 and they give you 5 red dot triggers. I realize these are cheap and I will probably experience problems, but I figured they'd work in the mean time for the initial experimental stage. Once I figure out if triggering is going to be something I want to use a lot, I'll probably get some better triggers. Unless the red dots do the trick well enough.

I originally intended to only use the triggers for the toms (because I can't tune drums worth donkey), but now that I've been through all the sounds of the DM5, I may be using it for more. I haven't actually used the triggers yet. Tonight will be the first test but I gotta buy some new cables (hence my question about bal. vs. unbal.).

I'll update later with my experience. Thanks for the help with the cables. I think i'll save some $$ and get standard instrument cables.

-Clintage
 
Had my first session testing the triggers. They work fairly well. It sounds really good. I am going to have to get better triggers though. The vibration of the cable on the trigger triggers the sound some times, especially on the kick drum. But other than that, the DM5 sounds great.

Thanks for all the help. unbalanced cables worked fine.

Clintage
 
You ~should~ be able to tweak the sensivity of the dm5 to eliminate those false triggers. I'm pretty sure mine did the same thing when i first set it up.

Sorry though, i can't recall how to adjust it, but it was pretty clear in the DM5 manual as i recall.

Daav
 
I doubt some of these replies. We are talking about cables from trigger to module, right?
I've been in electronic drums for years. I never heard of a balanced trigger before. All of the dozens and dozens of different triggers I have ever seen, have only two wires coming from them. A few modules use TRS cables to accommodate dual trigger pads, but not balanced signal.

Please explain, if I am wrong.
 
I agree. TS should be all you need. As far as false triggers, the parameter is called "Threshold" on my Alesis DM Pro. It makes your trigger more or less sensitive to a response, and can eliminate false triggers from unintentional vibrations such as cables or vibrations from other drums. The DM5 probably has this as well...on my DMpro there is another parameter called "Crosstalk". This will put the unit into a "listen" mode and it will adjust for false sounds coming in from other triggers besides the one selected.
In short, there are some good tools inside that little box to help you do what you want to do, just takes some time to mess with it. Good luck!
 
RawDepth said:
Please explain, if I am wrong.
Click to expand...

You are probably right. I have only used Ddrum triggers and I am not up on everything that is out there now. I was assuming the person asking the question knew something about his setup that I didn't, so I gave a stock 'balanced vs. unbalanced' answer.
Now that you mention it, I wonder what gave him the idea that the connections were balanced in the first place.
 
Farview said:
You are probably right. I have only used Ddrum triggers and I am not up on everything that is out there now. I was assuming the person asking the question knew something about his setup that I didn't, so I gave a stock 'balanced vs. unbalanced' answer.
Now that you mention it, I wonder what gave him the idea that the connections were balanced in the first place.
Click to expand...

Stretching the conjecture even further, i think he was assuming that balanced is better than unbalanced without necessarily workingout the mechanics (electrics?) of the two.

Daav
 
Farview said:
You are probably right. I have only used Ddrum triggers and I am not up on everything that is out there now. I was assuming the person asking the question knew something about his setup that I didn't, so I gave a stock 'balanced vs. unbalanced' answer.
Now that you mention it, I wonder what gave him the idea that the connections were balanced in the first place.
Click to expand...


That's cool, Farview. It sounds like he has the cabling under control now.

Hey Clintage, Musicians Friend has triggers made by Pulse called Red Hot. (sort of cheapo's, if you ask me) They also have some made by DDrum called Red Shot. (similar name, but don't confuse them.) The DDrums are way, way better. The best I have ever found. They work best if used with mesh heads.

Good Luck guys
RawDepth
 
I don't think balanced vs. unbalanced means a thing when triggering a module. If it is a duel zone pad, you do need a stereo cable to transmit the two areas, but this has nothing to do with being balanced.
 
Thanks for all the input! I've messed with the threshold and crosstalk and whatnot and I guess I can play a little more. The short piece of cable between the trigger and the connector is slammin' against the rim (mainly on kick), so it's triggering it. I think it's just a matter of placement, but I'd still be probably better off getting better ones. The reason I was wondering about bal vs. unbal was because I really didn't know anything about triggers. I thought that perhaps because of the ability to trigger a varied sound with a varied hit (i.e. softer hit equals softer sound, etc..) that it need a balanced connection (such as a keyboard's sustain pedal). And I've noticed on the V-drums that the connectors are trs, but then I realized that's probably because they're dual-zone. TS work fine. And my buddy at Sam Ash hooked me up with a deal on cables. Whooohooo!

Thanks for the advice on the red shot. I think i'm going to try them when they get in stock.

Next question...

Is using triggers cheating if you use them to simulate real drum sounds? I think I put that on a new thread.

Clintage
 
Clintage said:
Is using triggers cheating if you use them to simulate real drum sounds? I think I put that on a new thread.

Clintage
Click to expand...
If the drummer is playing the drums, it isn't cheating.
 
Clintage said:
(...) that it need a balanced connection (such as a keyboard's sustain pedal). (...)

Clintage
Click to expand...

A sustain pedal isn't balanced...a volume pedal is...
And what has been said about balanced cables giving you 6db more signal is complete nonsense I think, because it's not audio, it's a single signal!! Now I haven't worked with drum triggers, so I could be wrong, but I can't see why you would have '6db more signal', I don't think the drum trigger signals have anything to do with db's whatsoever :confused:

- Stan.
 
stanjanssen said:
A sustain pedal isn't balanced...a volume pedal is...
And what has been said about balanced cables giving you 6db more signal is complete nonsense I think, because it's not audio, it's a single signal!! Now I haven't worked with drum triggers, so I could be wrong, but I can't see why you would have '6db more signal', I don't think the drum trigger signals have anything to do with db's whatsoever :confused:

- Stan.
Click to expand...
A trigger is audio. Any signal that falls within our hearing range can be hooked up to a speaker and become audio. Electricity is electricity, what makes a signal audio is what we do with it. If a piece of equipment is expecting a balanced signal and you hook up an unbalanced cable, you will loose 6db. Always.

As we have found out earlier in the thread, triggers are not balanced. There are triggers that use (what would be referred to as) balanced cables because they have 2 triggers in one unit.

The confusion happens when we assume that every cable that has 2 conductors and a ground is 'balanced'. The cable has nothing to do with making a signal balanced, for all you know, it could be a stereo cable. What you are plugging the cable into determines what the cable is doing.

Don't confuse the cable or the connectors with the type of signal it is carrying.
 
Most drum triggers are little piezo electric wafers. These are thin flat discs or squares which can produce a small voltage when compressed or vibrated. They can be made from Quartz Crystal, Barium Titanate, Lead Zirconate, and Lead Titanate. Barium is probably the most popular for drum triggers and guitar pickups. To see one, simply walk into your local Radio Shack store and ask for a piezo computer speaker element ($1.99 each). They work in reverse to act like a speaker or to sense vibration, (like any transducer).

They usually produce less than 1 volt of DC current. That is why they only need two conductors. The more vigorously they vibrate, the greater the output voltage. They tend to only respond to certain vibration frequencies, although there are apparently enough overtones in a ringing drum head to excite them. The drum module simply senses this voltage and then plays a short sample of a drum sound. The higher the voltage, the louder the sample gets played.

Voila! The mystery is solved.

Cheers,
RawDepth
 
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