Drum Tracking Questions For The Pros !

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smellyfuzz

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1) How many mics do you use ?

2) What mics do you use ?

3) How many tracks do you use ?

4) What kind of effects do you use ?

5) Which drums do you put effects on ?

6) Which effect processors do you use ?



Sean
 
Dude, I'm like totally a pro . . .

kind of.

But I'm having a really bad day, and my confidence is down, so I'm not really feeling much like a pro, so I don't think I can answer you right now.

I'll bookmar it, though, and when my confidence is higher, and I'm feeling more like a pro, I'll be sure and answer.
 
Sean [/B][/QUOTE]
1) How many mics do you use ?
12/13
2) What mics do you use ?
kick-RE20/Beta52 Snare top-SM57 Snare bottom-AVJEffe Hihat-NT1/C3000 Toms-SM57 OH-GrooveTubed model1
3) How many tracks do you use ?
12/13
4) What kind of effects do you use ?
TCelectronics M3000
5) Which drums do you put effects on ?
Snare top, toms, OH
6) Which effect processors do you use ?
see 4
 
1) How many mics do you use ?
Usually seven.

2) What mics do you use ?
Inside the kick, an AKG D-112. Outside a GT AM-52 in fig 8.
On the snare, an AKG C-1000 out about 8" aimed at the rim.
Rack toms, another C-1000 back about 6" aimed between the rims.
Floor tom, a C-3000 about 6-8" back aimed at the center of the head.
Overheads, lately I've been using Earthworks SR-71's. I think I've rediscovered these mics.
3) How many tracks do you use ?
Seven, but when mixing I may use 9 channels in the console.
4) What kind of effects do you use ?
Well, I use compression as an effect. Maybe a little reverb sometimes.
5) Which drums do you put effects on ?
Snare and tom tracks at mix time, not when tracking.
I like to assign the kick, snare and tom tracks to a sub group and send that out to a compressor and step on it hard. I bring that back to two channels in the board and bring it up under my existing drum mix. It can make it big.
6) Which effect processors do you use
I fond of an old Midiverb II for drums. I have a couple of Lexicons that sound OK.
 
1) How many mics do you use ?
13

2) What mics do you use ?
depends on the session. for kick: d-112, fet 47, beta 52
snare top : sm57
snare bottom: md-441
toms: 421s
overheads: C414s, or km-184
hi-hat/ride: C 451s, ksm-137s
room mics: U 47s, U 89s

an m/s pair in front of the kit

3) How many tracks do you use ?
12

4) What kind of effects do you use ?
heavy eq, compression, reverb

5) Which drums do you put effects on ?
compression on snare and kick

6) Which effect processors do you use ?
dbx 160s

*take note that this is NOT my gear. i'm as poor as the rest of you...this is just what i've seen done when working on label work*
 
1) How many mics do you use?

1-15


2) What mics do you use?

Neumann - TLM 50 (overhead, room mics), M 150(overhead, room mics), M 149(overhead, room mics), U 87(overhead, toms, snare, kick, room mics).

AKG - 414 (overhead, tomes, snare, hi hat, room mics), 450(overhead, hi hat), 460(overhead, hi hat), 480(overhead, hi hat), D 112(kick), D 12(kick).

Electrovoice - RE 20 (kick, floor toms)

Sennhieser - MD 421 (toms, kick).

Beyer Dynamic - M 201(snare, toms), M88 (kick).

Shure - SM 57 (snare, toms, kick), Beta 56/57 (snare, toms), Beta 52 (kick), Beta 91 (kick), SM 81 (overheads, hi hat).

DPA - 4006 (overheads, room mics), 4011 (overheads, hi hat).

Earthworks - TC30K/TC40K (overheads, room mics), QTC1 (overheads, room mics).

And of course, what ever happens to be in the room I am in.


3) How many tracks do you use?

1-15


4) What kind of effects do you use?

Depends on the music.


5) Which drums do you put effects on?

Depends on the music.


6) Which effect processors do you use?

Whatever is available and appropriate?


For what it is worth, you are (IMHO) leaving out the most important question. What style of music is being recorded. All other decisions flow from this one.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Alright, my day wasn't so bad. I'm feeling kind of pro-ish right now:


1) How many mics do you use ?
4
What mics do you use ?

Depending on my mood, I'll use either a pair of okatava mc012's or a pair of mxl603's on overheads. A 57 on snare, and an ATM25 on kick.
3) How many tracks do you use ?

4
What kind of effects do you use ?


Even though I just learned it's not technically an effect per se, :D I use a lot of compression and limiting -- to the extent that you'd probably have to call it an effect.

I use distortion -- something I've been getting much more in to lately.

5) Which drums do you put effects on ?


Generally I'll use just a little distortion on kick, and a little more on snare. It's barely even there. Reverb, I'll either put on the mixdown of the drums, or maybe just the overheads. Sometimes a different verb on the snare, depending.

6) Which effect processors do you use ?


For distortion I use a Sansamp. When I'm feeling lazy, I'll use a software amp modeler (Amplitube, which can be hit or miss, usually). But my favorite -- and I should use this one more -- is an MXR dual rack limiter which is pretty cool (think of the drum sound at the begginning of Radio Head's Paranoid Android or Flaming Lips' Race for the Prize).

For compression, I use the built-in comp on the symetrix 528 for kick, symetrix 501 for snare, and I'll use Waves' plugins for the overheads and/or the drums mixdown. I like to use the attack/release times of the outboard compressors creatively to get more snap/attack out of the kick and snare, while I like to use the L1 or L2 limiter to squash the overheads and/or the entire kit.

For reverb, it's the TC Electric TCM3000 "Puk drum room" preset I have stored as an Accoustic Mirror impulse. :D I try to tweak the pre-delay to match the tempo of the song to either the 16th or 8th note.
 
1) How many mics do you use ?
Depends on the sound needed and the kit in question. However, roughly 60% of the sound normally comes from three mics, the rest are fillers.

2) What mics do you use ?
Kick - AT2500 inside, Neumann U47 or U89i in front for extra low if required.
Snare - Shure SM7 and SM57
Toms - depending on sound required (as always), Neumann KM54, Earthwork SR77, AT4050, AKG414's with inner tube audio tube modifications.
Hat - AKG451B
Cymbals - Earthwork (model depending on cymbals)
Overheads - Neumann U87's with inner tube audio tube modifications.
Room - Earthwork omni's.

3) How many tracks do you use ?
See #1

4) What kind of effects do you use ?
Reverb, compression

5) Which drums do you put effects on ?
Depends, but mainly snare and toms

6) Which effect processors do you use ?
TC electronics, Sony, cardboard dividers on clamps, steel wire tunnel with acoustic curtain covering.
 
i would second most of what chessrock said. i look at the drums as one instrument, so i don't usually like to isolate each part of it. that being said . . .

MICS (4)
overheads - pair nt5's
snare - sm57
bass - shure beta 52 and/or oktava mk 319 3 feet in front

EFFECTS
compression
gate on snare
very little reverb if any

TRACKS
each mic has its own track, so 4-5 depending on the kick situation

that's about it. i like to keep things as simple as possible - it keeps me from messing up so much. but beyond that i think it provides a cooler sound for what i do, a less polished sound.
 
Re: Re: Drum Tracking Questions For The Pros !

sjoko2 said:
Kick - AT2500 inside

sjoko2, give me your impression on the AT2500 please.


Amund
 
Re: Re: Re: Drum Tracking Questions For The Pros !

plexi said:
sjoko2, give me your impression on the AT2500 please.


Amund

will the best drum mic there is for the purpose at present do?;)
 
smellyfuzz said:
1) How many mics do you use ?

2) What mics do you use ?

3) How many tracks do you use ?

4) What kind of effects do you use ?

5) Which drums do you put effects on ?

6) Which effect processors do you use ?



Sean


first i know i am prob. repeating some info, i didn't read the whole forum, and i just wanted to put in my 2 cents... ya know.

1. right around 12/13 depending on how many drums u got.
2. snare=sm57, toms= sennheiser MD 421 , Kick= akg d112, cymbals= akg C3000, room mics 2 akg solid tube mics.(clearly omni patern)
3. just put them all on a seprate track and then mix it down later, you may find you dont' want your room mic sound, or maybe u want not all of your snare drum sound direct on the drum, but a combo of room and direct on the snare... ya never know till ya mix it!
4. generally with drums i do most of my effects after i record. I don't put reverbs on it right away or things of that nature.
5. i usually put reverb on drums like the snare and some times toms. but snare needs it usaully. You can kinda cheat if you want in the mix if you recording digital and replace drums if they just dont' sound right, or do a combo of what you would replace it with and the actual sound. I have peoples kits who just really suck and man... i hate to say it but i replace it a lot...
6. Sometiems i will run a compresser on the kick drum. Just depends on what it sounds like when i am recording it. Other than that none really...

well i hope that helped a bit. I just felt like saying what i do so ya know.
 
So, now for a more useful response than my previous one. I have three or four different basic methods of recording drums. Of course, none of them is ever quite the same twice, as the situation is never quite the same. The sound of each is quite different.

My favorite way to record drums (when it is appropriate) is the simplest. It uses one mic, sometimes two. The basic technique is to use one omnidirectional LD mic. There are many good choices. Some of my favorite are M 49, M 149, U 47 (if they are in good shape, which is rare), old U-87, C 12. This is placed just above and just in front of the drummers head. It should be just as close to the drummer as is possible without making the drummer uncomfortable. Ideally it should be within 12 inches of the drummers head. 6-8 is better, but only if the drummer does not move his head much. I also like the sound of "pressure transducer" mics for this. The classic example of a pressure transducer is the Neumann M 50, which is a wonderful mic. The M 50 is out of production, but they are now making two other pressure transducers, the TLM 50, and the M 150. Also fine mics. You can also use any number of high end SD omni condensers, which can be modified to with a sphere to work as pressure transducers. Both Schoeps and DPA make such spheres for their mics. Pressure transducers are basically omnidirectional mics, but they have a very interesting frequency response. As the frequency gets higher, the mic becomes increasingly more directional. This is true of all mics, but is considerably more pronounced in pressure transducers. It can tame the brightness of the cymbals, which can be very useful. If the drummer is good, and can control their dynamics well (particularly the kick drum) this is all you need. They need to be able to listen to the playback, and adjust ("mix") their own levels. Most drummers have a problem with this. I will add a kick mic if I need to. Usually I will go with a LD condenser for this. I use this method most often with Jazz, and also with more raw styles of pop and rock. It is good for rockabilly, and also for certain singer/songwriter type things. More than any other method of recording, this requires a very good drummer. Without a good drummer, it is not even worth trying. I almost never use any processing for this method. A little compression, particularly for rock stuff, sometimes a lot on rock stuff. This is best for smaller drum sets. I will, on occasion, add a pair of room mics for this. Given my choice, I like to use DPA 4006 for the room mics, which are always my first choice for room mics. Any extremely linear SD omni condenser will do, such as Earthworks TC30K, or QTC 1.

On the other end of the spectrum is close micing. This is (in general) a tighter, more controlled sound. This still starts with overheads. You can use one, or two. I like to put them about 3-5 feet above the snare drum, depending on the height of the drummer’s cymbals. (For instance, they will be much higher for Anton Fig than for Jim Keltner). I will alternate (depending on my mood) between small and large diaphragm condensers. AKG 414s are nice, but so are Earthworks TC30Ks. I have used U 87, and I have used 460. Different drum sets will sound better with different mics, and you just need to learn what sounds like what.

Next in importance are the kick and the snare. Kick is easy. My favorite kick mic is the Shure Beta 52. This is not the only mic which will work, but it is my favorite. On R&B sessions, I usually use a Beyer M88, and sometimes for pop music sessions I will use a Beta 91 along with the 52. It is also sometimes cool to set up a tunnel with another kick drum, without any heads, in front of the main one. You put a LD condenser at the end of the tunnel, and mix it in with a 52 closer to the beater head.

For snare drum, I am very particular about the mics I use. On the top of the snare I use a Beyer M201 and an AKG 414. It is essential that you put these immediately next to one another, and align the capsules with one another. I like to have the capsules 1-2 inches from the rim, pointing towards the center of the snare drum. I also use a M201 on the bottom of the snare drum, pointing towards the center, angled about 15 degrees off vertical. If I must, I will replace the M201s with a pair of SM 57s. They are not my favorite, but they will work. 57s will have a different placement, as they have a different polar pattern. You want to keep the hi hat in the null space of the mic.

Toms are a little less picky about what mics you use. I like the M201 more than anything, but 57s are fine, as are M421s, 441s. If I am doing a seventies soul type of thing, I am very fond of LD condensers on the toms. If you like the old Sly and the Family Stone stuff, that is the sound.

I am not a big fan of hi hat mics, but if I am going to use one, it will almost always be either an AKG 460 (480 these days), or a DPA 4011 (one of my absolute favorite mics in the world). Experiment with placement, as the drummers technique and equipment make a big difference in the sound of the hi hat.

Compression is the main type of processing for this style. I am generally trying for a more pronounced attack on the drums when I am using this style of micing. I achieve this by using a slow attack, and a fast release. This means that the initial hit is not compressed, but becomes so only after. This is far more effective at increasing the attack and punchiness than an EQ. I like to do this during tracking. I know many people would rather "fix it in the mix", but I believe in making choices as I go. I always figure I only have so much capacity for decision making, and if I try to do it all at once (when mixing), then I will not be making my best choices.

The other important bit of processing is noise gates. Kick, snare, and toms all get gates. I do this during tracking as well, as it gives me the opportunity to use a technique which I could not otherwise do. I use small home made triggers, made out of piezo electric crystals from Radio Shack Door Bell Buzzers. I send them to the side chain input of the gate, so that they open and close the gates. This has two advantages. One, it means that the signal opening the gates is a far more isolated signal. The other benefit is that the triggers are touching the drum head, while the mics are a few inches away. This means that the triggers signal is a few microseconds before the microphones, so the gates open before the mic signal arrives.

As far as reverb, well I mostly use this technique for R&B and soul, so I use a lot less reverb than I might. I do, however, use for country music as well. I am much different than some engineers, in that I like to use one reverb for the entire kit. I frequently use only one reverb for the entire mix, or two or three at most. I like to use plates of various sorts. Small rooms, or the occasional hall also work. This is also what I will do for main stream pop type music.

The third technique is sort of a combination or the first two. It relies primarily on the overheads and the room mics. For this I use Earthworks TC30Ks for the overheads (ideally) and DPA 40006s for the room mics.

The rest of the mics are pretty much the same as the second technique. The main difference is in the processing. Compression. Lots and lots of compression. My favorite way to get the sound is to run the room mics through the quad buss compressor on an SSL. You turn all of the knobs all the way too the right and that is it. You also put a large amount of compression on the overheads. Squash it like Mama Cass' throw cushion. The room mics pretty much eliminate the need for reverb, but some can be used. This is also what I do most of the time for really loud, hard rock. Industrial, grunge, punk, Nu Metal, and other styles of similar ilk. You squash the hell out of the room mics and the overheads, but the rest of the kit is left a little more laid back. Again, this is all done during tracking. Making decisions, you know.

So those are my most common approaches to drum tracking. Hope that helps.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Hey Smellyfuzz,

you wish your 96 channel SSL wasn't in repair right now!


Light: that was the most overdone, non-informatic post I've ever read on this forum. You mentioned every possible mic that dude will not have available.

:rolleyes:
 
i am not a pro, so you probably don't want to hear from me, but i think simpler is usually better. unless you really know how to mix 13-15 tracks of drums you're gonn f up the whole thing. but i got to thinking about why i do what i do with the drums . . .

OVERHEADS
i basically spend a bunch of time on overhead placement for 1) good overall sound, 2) elimination of as much bass drum as possible, 3) good stereo image.

BASS AND SNARE
then i add as much of the bass as possible from the isolated kick mic. the snare mic just adds pop, and can help with the crisp rhythm of the song.

EFFECTS
gate the snare and kick, maybe a tiiiiinnnnnnnyyyyyyy bit of reverb on the snare (too much and you'll sound like bon jovi - which might be cool)!

overall this give the feeling that the drums are really one instrument because each drum has similiar tone etc. because they all use the room's reverb, and 'natural' volume differences. oh yeah, don't forget compression. there's no rule, don't use too much since the drums will add tons of awesome dynamics, but also don't be afraid to try some in the mix down stage or a bit in the recording stage depending on your drummer.
 
Light said:
M 49, M 149, U 47, old U-87, C 12, M 50, TLM 50, M 150. Schoeps, DPA Earthworks TC30K, QTC 1, AKG 414s, 460.

My favorite way to get the sound is to run the room mics through the quad buss compressor on an SSL. You turn all of the knobs all the way too the right and that is it.

Now image your profile saying you're a stagehand. LOL :D

please don't take it too personal Light. I'm a nice dude, and really needed this laugh. I too have the music catalogue laying around on the toiletbooth!
 
smellyfuzz said:
1) How many mics do you use ?

2-6 depending on the song and the drummer

2) What mics do you use ?

Lately... a Sennheiser MD-421 in front of the kit and either a Royer SF-12 or a pair of Josephson C-42's over the kit... occassionally some Gefell 930's

3) How many tracks do you use ?

2-6 depending on the song

4) What kind of effects do you use ?

During tracking, none... during the mix, maybe some reverb [usually plate based] some compression and/or some 'parellel compression'

5) Which drums do you put effects on ?

Kik and snare ... maybe come compression on the overheads and/or room mics

6) Which effect processors do you use ?

Kurzweil KSP-8... Empirical Labs "EL-8"s... what ever seems like a good idea at the time.

Sean [/B][/QUOTE]
 
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