Drum Recording/ Levels and volume

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chrisweign

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Hello, I am new at recording and play drums. Recently, I got a back of 7 drum mics, 2 condencers and 3 tom mic's, 1 snare mic, and 1 bass drum mic.

I have the snare, tom mics, and bass drum miced all attached and plugged into my mixer.

Also I have the 2 condencers plugged in, along with the MXL 991/990 condencer microphones places in the same room as my drumset for a ambiant noise.

I was wondering what levels the 2 condencer microphones that are for the cymbals should be at, along with the all my drum microphones and the 2 room microphones.

I have tried diffrent things, but i cant seem to get a great sound, I have an old stero mixer, and the main out is going into the insturment input on the Lexicon Alpha USB audio interface, then into my computer as 1 stereo file. the only way to ajust the EQ of a single tom, snare or any microphone that is plugged into my mixer is with the EQ knobs on the mixer. i have High, Mid, and Low EQ knobs.


My main question is :

What should all the volume levels be at, and the trim setting? And the cymbal condenser along with room mic levels, and the EQ for each of the mics?

Thanks
 
Massive Master said:
(I'm getting a lot of mileage out of this one this week...)

http://www.massivemastering.com/blog/index_files/Proper_Audio_Recording_Levels.php
Click to expand...

Thanks. It helped, but although my recording arnt peaking, they are at a pretty low volume so I can digitaly increase the volume of them.

But I am wondering how to make cymbals sound more "there" like it is close up and not across the room without making them to loud.

Ive tired ajusting the trim and volume but it isnt helping. Also what is a good EQ for overheads?
 
If you are trying to mic the cymbals, then you want the mics above the kit. 2 or 3 feet from the cymbals is good.

How they are EQ'd depends a lot on the style of music. Some genres use the overheads as the sound of the kit, with the close mics just to fill in.

Some genres will cut everything under 300hz.

If the cymbals sound far away, the mics are probably far away.
 
You should use your overheads AS overheads. Meaning, you shouldn't be looking at them as cymbal mics. They should be capturing the majority of your overall final drum sound.
 
Drums are an odd one. They use 107 different microphones pointed at 107 different things, so the impression is that you can do anything you want to change them when mixing.

Truth be told, even with all of those mics the best way to make the cybals louder is to hit the cymbals harder. Same holds true for any of the drums. Same also holds true for making stuff quieter instead of louder.


My other advise: Watch your phase. Flipping the phase on a single mic can make the difference between awful and perfect for the whole kit.
 
Running several mics into a mixer, setting levels and EQ there, and then digitizing the mixer output is an extremely difficult approach to get right. I used to do this with my band before we had a multi-input interface. We would get so-so results at best, completely unusable garbage at worst.

Even if you get a sound you think sounds good, it might all go to shit when you start layering other instruments on top because you can't adjust the individual levels of the drums after the fact.

There are too many variables to make a cook-book approach possible, not the least of which are the kind of music you're recording, the drummer's style, and what your room sounds like. The only thing you can really do is a bunch of trial and error, and if you've got 7 mics coming in, you're going to drive yourself batty in a big hurry.

Obviously, the best answer is to get an interface with multiple inputs, but I realize you might not have the funds, as so many of us don't.

I know you're probably hankering to make use of all 7 of your fancy new mics, but honestly, I think you'll find it easier to get something usable if you keep it much simpler. For instance, maybe put a close mic on the snare, a close mic on the kick, and use your best condenser to get a room sound.
 
If you're new at recording drums you should try using just 4 mics. Kick, snare, overheads. Gly johns, recorderman methods. Then when you get the hang of it, slowly build up. I can't imagine a first attempt with 8,9 mics sounding too good. Just a thought :)
 
chrisweign said:
Also what is a good EQ for overheads?
Click to expand...

I'd shoot for not using any eq on them. My thinking is that if there's something wrong with the sound you should change the cymbals, drums or mics. Eq'ing cymbals has always sounded weird and unnatural to me.

The overheads alone should sound very, very close to a finished set sound, and the kick and snare mic should just augment them. Ideally I'd only use a pair of overheads to simulate what my ears hear when I play.
 
dintymoore said:
The overheads alone should sound very, very close to a finished set sound, and the kick and snare mic should just augment them. Ideally I'd only use a pair of overheads to simulate what my ears hear when I play.
Click to expand...
This is completely genre specific. This is good advice if the type of music calls for a more 'real' drum sound. If you are doing anything that calls for a 'larger than life' drum sound, this will not work at all.
 
Farview said:
This is completely genre specific. This is good advice if the type of music calls for a more 'real' drum sound. If you are doing anything that calls for a 'larger than life' drum sound, this will not work at all.
Click to expand...

+10000000


It's not realistic as a hobbyist to go swapping cymbals and drums and mics. Most of us have what we have and do it in the room we have to do it in.
 
Greg_L said:
+10000000


It's not realistic as a hobbyist to go swapping cymbals and drums and mics. Most of us have what we have and do it in the room we have to do it in.
Click to expand...
So true. While I accept that there is definitely scope to have the best equipment and a pro studio class room etc, etc, many if not most of us hobbyists make do with what we have. Enjoy what you do. Keep experimenting. Keep learning. Most of us ain't full time pros that spend 16 hours a day every day doing this. Even in frustration don't lose your passion.
As for a specific answer, with 7 mics you actually do have tremendous scope, ranging from close micing everything to the Glyn Johns method {4 mics} to hanging one mic overhead a la lo-fi jazz. You can play in different ways. Sometimes you don't have to whack the hell out of the drums to shake the room ! Sometimes you do. There are lots of different things you can do and there's lots of good advice in various threads on this site. Even in some of the heated arguments you may find interesting divergences of opinion that may be worth exploring. Try to be patient and seek to arrive at a sound you like, but that fits the music you are playing at any given time. As for EQ, you may be better off not using any. Volume/trim settings you'll have to experiment with. Start fairly low and work your way up.
Finally, listen to the music of the folk on this site, especially the drummers and those that use drums. There's a really helpful spectrum of drumming.
 
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