drum overhead mic placement

[smidgie]

I'm having trouble figuring out what kind of overhead mic placement to use for drums. I want a nice stereo sound with not too much kick and snare since i will be close miking them, but i want the toms and cymbals to stand out since the overheads are the only mics that are gonna pick them up because i'm only using 4 mics on the kit. i've tried XY pattern about 4 feet above the drums and it didn't really sound good. It sounded like there was phase cancelation and the stereo field sucked. but when i lowered them to about 2 1/2 feet above the kit it sounded more exciting and had a wider stereo field. but when compared to spaced mics at the edges of the kit, it didn't have a very good stereo image. but the problem i have with the spaced pairs is that the snare allways seems off to the side. i guess i just need to reposition the mics so it isn't. is it better to have the mics closer to the kit when using XY and higher above when using spaced mics? what are the proper ways to position the mics when using these 2 techniques? i want a metal or rock type sound. what about ORTF micing? can someone tell me what this is since i don't know and if it is good for drums?? whew...
thanks

 

[Shailat]

First of all try to cut the lows (from about 150Hz)
You dont really need them in the overheads.
Then boost a little around 10-15kHz. This will bring out the cymbals a bit more.

Here is another option for a wide stereo image.

Place them in a V shape with the open V facing the drums.
The mics should be at a 90 degrees angel, pointing away from each other.
This should give you a nice wide image you might like better then the XY. Although I feel that for a Rock-metal sound, the "XY" tends to give a bigger sound.
You have to check you mix in mono to see if you are having phase cancilation probloms in any case.

Another interesting alternative is to place the 2 mics behind you ears in a "XY" posittion.

In general the more you move the overheads up the different sound you'll get from them - the higher you go the more ambiance (room). It depends a lot on the room your recording in. IMHO the room plays a major part on the overheads drum sound.


Try to move the overheads from about 3 feet and move them higher like 5 feet to see if that can help you.




[This message has been edited by Shailat (edited 07-04-2000).]

 

[Shailat]

I forgot the ORTF.
It's using 2 cardiod mics place at a open v with a 110 degree between them and spaced at about 170mm.
This would give you a wide stereo image.

 

[John Sayers]

Try drawing an imaginery line through the kick and snare - then place your mikes either side of that line - one will land up over your floor tom and the other over your first rack tom - now hit the snare and balance them so that the snare sounds center on your sound field you will then find your toms are spread L/C/R and your cymbals sound L/R your snare will sound better and your phase will be better

 

[smidgie]

thanks for the help. i tried the behind the ears position and i was surprised at how good it sounded, almost better then ORTF over the kit.
thanks again.