Doubling without phase?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BRIEFCASEMANX
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BRIEFCASEMANX

BRIEFCASEMANX

Winner chicken dinner!
I've read some stuff about doubling drum parts and compressing one part at "squash" settings to make them more punchy/full (http://www.digidesign.com/digizine/archive/digizine_september03/groundwork/)

And people talk about recording bass by mic-amp + going direct at the same time......

how do you do this doubling stuff without causing phase problems???? I don't have protools so i don't really understand what's he's talking about in the article i linked to.
 
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BRIEFCASEMANX said:
I've read some stuff about doubling drum parts and compressing one part at "squash" settings to make them more punchy/full (http://www.digidesign.com/digizine/archive/digizine_september04/contents.cfm?body=mixing/)

And people talk about recording bass by mic-amp + going direct at the same time......

how do you do this doubling stuff without causing phase problems???? I don't have protools so i don't really understand what's he's talking about in the article i linked to.
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The article you linked to deals with mastering and getting all the songs on your cd close to the same levels.

You do not need protools to do it it can be done with most any multirecording software so im not sure about the question you are asking.
 
i just glanced at that article...but they weren't talking about doubling really. it seems like he was talking about the New York style compression. where you just copy the stereo drum track and compress it real hard and blend it with the other track.
 
There are 2 tracks......

how can the 2 tracks be "blended" without phase problems?

how do you "blend" DI'ed bass and amped bass without phase problems?
 
BRIEFCASEMANX said:
There are 2 tracks......

how can the 2 tracks be "blended" without phase problems?

how do you "blend" DI'ed bass and amped bass without phase problems?
Click to expand...

???

I do this all the time as long as the 2 parts are in time with each other...its nothing fancy...

If you are using a Computer S/W if you have one that as ADC(Automatic Delay Compensation) you don't have to worry about phase from copying tracks
 
Does Cubase compensate for processing delays?

This was an interesting article -- but I was confused too about when he talked about adjusting the timing of a track to compensate for "plug-in" and "buffering" delays. Shouldn't a program like Cubase (and Pro Tools) adjust for these processing delays automatically?

"With a sampling rate of 44.1 kHz, one millisecond is approximately equal to 44 samples. Thus, when you see that some of your track delays are off by just a few samples, it's not really going to cause any major phasing issues. However, if you instantiate some plug-ins on a track that seriously delays a specific track, you might need to nudge that track ahead in time to compensate for plug-in processing delay. Or you can get tricky, use math, and run the other tracks through a Short Delay DigiRack plug-in to ensure phase coherence."
 
KeithCF said:
This was an interesting article -- but I was confused too about when he talked about adjusting the timing of a track to compensate for "plug-in" and "buffering" delays. Shouldn't a program like Cubase (and Pro Tools) adjust for these processing delays automatically?
Click to expand...

Not all versions of Pro Tools have automatic delay compensation for the plugins

briefcase-
with new york compression, the two tracks are the exact same...right up until the point you add compression. and compression is not adjusting the frequency content, just the amplitude of those frequncies....so there is no phasing of tracks involved. phasing has to do with frequencies/time
 
bennychico11 said:
Not all versions of Pro Tools have automatic delay compensation for the plugins

briefcase-
with new york compression, the two tracks are the exact same...right up until the point you add compression. and compression is not adjusting the frequency content, just the amplitude of those frequncies....so there is no phasing of tracks involved. phasing has to do with frequencies/time
Click to expand...

I realized that when i typed the reply "ahhhhhhhhhhhhh". It must not have worked for me in the past because of some sort of effect(eq or delay or something) on the original track. I couldn't believe I didn't realize this when I am a keyboard player who uses subtractive synthesis for sound creation every day!

Anyone know if adobe audition have automatic delay compensation?
 
KeithCF said:
This was an interesting article -- but I was confused too about when he talked about adjusting the timing of a track to compensate for "plug-in" and "buffering" delays. Shouldn't a program like Cubase (and Pro Tools) adjust for these processing delays automatically?

"With a sampling rate of 44.1 kHz, one millisecond is approximately equal to 44 samples. Thus, when you see that some of your track delays are off by just a few samples, it's not really going to cause any major phasing issues. However, if you instantiate some plug-ins on a track that seriously delays a specific track, you might need to nudge that track ahead in time to compensate for plug-in processing delay. Or you can get tricky, use math, and run the other tracks through a Short Delay DigiRack plug-in to ensure phase coherence."
Click to expand...

Certain plugins that require lots of processing power can sometimes delay your audio, so you need to shift the track back a certain number of milliseconds or samples to compensate. It can happen with some reverbs that require a lot of juice.

As for Briefcase's question about the bass...that's a pretty common practice. It's not really doubling. The part isn't played twice. You run the bass into a DI and then out of the DI direct to your recording medium and also to an amp which is miked. It's kind of like having a wet and a dry signal. A blend of the two can sound pretty good, if you have a decent DI box.
 
All you do is make sure the peaks and troughs match up on the waves. Zoom right in and nudge the tracks to get them looking almost identical. Soooo simple!
 
If you can spare the CPU power, put the same plugs on both the original and doubled tracks. Leave the settings flat on the original and do what you need to do on the double. The delay should be identical for both tracks and you don't need to manually measure (some plugs will tell you delay in samples) and shift tracks
 
This is so much easier on a mixing board. You take the tracks and send them to two sets of busses. Strap a compressor on one set and leave the other set alone. I thought computers were supposed to make our lives easier.
 
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