dogsh** guitar sound

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Everyone else here, at one point or another, has gone through the frustration of:

getting the right sound at the amp, but spending the ENTIRE AFTERNOON trying to get the right sound in the MONITORS :confused: Or even the headphones. Another afternoon down the shttr today; thought I'd try that "legendary" SM-57 on a high-gained, mid-heavy overdriven tube sound from a Crate DSP80 (300 W/1 Speaker) amp.

The amp is in a closet; walls, doors and ceiling are sound deadened with heavy blankets. It sits on a chair facing the opposite side of the closet (about 14' x 10' x 3'). Tried miking it 1-inch away several spots on the grille, head pointed at the center of the cone, head pointed straight. Top, middle, edge... The amp was sounding meaty, but had that delicious mid-rangey overdrive sound with very little crackling distortion. In
the cans, it was nothing but garbage... thin, brittle, squashed. Miked it further away -- just got worse, and the level was too low to be useable.

I did run the dry guitar into a dbx DDP box to compress it for sustain before hand, but since it sounded good at the amp... it's either a pre-amp or mic/miking problem. The pre-amp is an ART MP Studio (tube); I do have and use a PreSonus DigiTUBE (which sounds loads better, IMO) but that was to be used for the second (capsule) mic (AT 4047). Nevermind the 4047, I couldn't get the SM-57 to give me jack crap.

Something else makes me think the SM-57 (brand new) is at fault; tested a Shure Beta 56 (drum mic) in its place, and it sounded better right away.

Am I using the mic wrong, should I boost lows on the amp itself, or what? Think the ART is the culprit? Comments/suggestions appreciated :) :)


Chad
 
If it sounds better with the oter mic, use it!!!
The ART preamp is very likely to be a part of the problem, a piece of crap IMNSHO.....

Also, it sounds good in the room, but put your head in front of the speaker, maybe what`s goming out of the amp isn`t as good??

But every piece of the chain is important........


Amund
 
Neve said:
If it sounds better with the oter mic, use it!!!
Click to expand...

The other mic being the Shure Beta 56... Yeah, that's a good idea. I've had moderate success using those before for guitar amps -- my only question is why don't you hear about anyone else using the Beta 56 for guitar amps ... Yeah "if it sounds good, do it". Yeah.... just wondering anyway... ;)

The ART preamp is very likely to be a part of the problem, a piece of crap IMNSHO.....
Click to expand...

That's possible :o

Also, it sounds good in the room, but put your head in front of the speaker, maybe what`s goming out of the amp isn`t as good??
Click to expand...

The thought occured right after posting that maybe the sound-deadened closet isn't the best place for a good meaty amp sound. Maybe it should just sit there, facing out of the closet toward the room... with all the standing waves and other wicked audio devils out there. I'll update after trying a different amp location, sometime tonight or tomorrow. But then, the AT 4047 will pick up the leaky faucet dripping six apartments away :D:D

Thanks for the thoughts.


Chad
 
participant said:


my only question is why don't you hear about anyone else using the Beta 56 for guitar amps ...

Chad
Click to expand...

The Edge use it, he manages to get some decent sounds out of it, doesn`t he!!!

Amund
 
Neve said:

The Edge use it, he manages to get some decent sounds out of it, doesn`t he!!!
Click to expand...

Cool! Didn't know that. Thanks for the info :)


Chad
 
participant said:
thought I'd try that "legendary" SM-57 on a high-gained, mid-heavy overdriven tube sound from a Crate DSP80 (300 W/1 Speaker) amp.

Click to expand...

tube sound from a crate dsp80? that's a contradictio in terminis! (SP?)

Guhlenn
 
Re: Re: dogsh** guitar sound

guhlenn said:
tube sound from a crate dsp80? that's a contradictio in terminis! (SP?)
Click to expand...

Well, there's the tube channel and the solid state channel. The dsp80 does have a decent tube sound (with the tube switched on, of course). Crate amps are known (at least I've heard) more for their solid state sound.

This particular amp does sound very good, but yeah... I'll admit my mistake. I said "hi gained overdriven tube sound" then went on to say "very little distortion". By definition, overdrive means distortion, no? :o :p

What I meant was that LOW (almost no) gain, hi-level tube sound with very little distortion. So yeah... someone caught the mistake :p Good eyes, guhlenn. By the time I realized what I wrote, it was too late to edit.

--

Actually, the sound I'm looking for is that 500 Hz-heavy, bullhorn -- 60's shopping mall speaker sound... not the full bullhorn effect, mind you... this sound has the lows and highs of the guitar intact -- but with the 500 Hz octave emphasized. Sort of that driving, alt. rock sound. The only way I can get that is with very little sustain -- even putting a compressor as the first in the chain -- before the amp. I have to turn down the volume on either the compressor, or the guitar itself so there's no crackle (distortion) in the sound -- but it just sounds way underpowered :confused:

...anyone suggest a way to get that sort of in-your-face 500 Hz heavy guitar sound, with no distortion (and some decent sustain)?


Thankx ;)


Chad
 
i would say that a bit of distortion is what tube is all about... if you want tube sound without distortion you'll have te get something like a bassman (i have it and love it)...

another trick i like for alt rock is getting a cheap stereo speaker and slitting it open... but this will give you more fuzzy distortion... i cannot quite make out what sound you're after... try again...

Guhlenn

*i saw it! I saw the mass confusion!!! I was abducted!!!:rolleyes:"
 
Good points. The sound probably approaches the Vox AC30 amp, with the lower mids boosted and no distortion. Actually got this sound to tape (well... into Cubase :)) and didn't like how the rough mix was sounding. Not enough OOMPH. Maybe a bit of overdrive, kind of some smooth distortion will make it sound good.

Actually, the reason I needed to go away from the distortion is that the power chords in the progression include major 7ths and open strings... and that will just sound like sheeite when played with fuzz. I remember now how we tracked this song (on a cheapo rig) last time: play just the tonic power chords with the fuzz (for the "meat" part of the guitar sound) and double track a clean guitar underneath it, with the major 7th. That little Boss overdrive pedal plus the dsp80 for the fuzz, and anything... clean amp, acoustic, twelve string, whatever... for the major 7ths.

Thanks guhlenn for helping me think out loud ;):D


Chad
 
yo're wellcome..

i would double track anyway if you want that oomph sound... and use a marshall preferably for the powerchords... something like the jcm800 if it's available..

anyway good luck!

Guhlenn

ps. I personally love the sound of a little distortion on 7th and 9th chords... gives that really weird alt rock sound i think...
 
Crate Amps are garbage. Get yourself a Marshall or Mesa TUBE!
 
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