Does This Sound Commercial?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Beezoboy
  • Start date Start date
B

Beezoboy

Home Recording Guru
I think this mix is very close to radio quality.

Things I know already:

1. Guitar at beginning - You'll either love it or hate it
2. A few pitch problems in vocals
3. Cymbal crashes not as loud as hat or ride

Help me find things I don't hear already. Please.



Beez
 
Well, no.

There is something wrong with the drums and the guitar lead. They sound hollow. Maybe its on purpose, but it doesn't work for me. Vocals are off in a couple of spots--generally pretty good. but could come up a bit in the mix. The drummer has a few off beats.

Generally it's pretty good. I am being picky.
 
I agree with sloop. The guits and drums sound very hollow. I like the vox but cant get past the "hollow" sound. Cool tune though!
 
robby,

im guessing this is middleground from the sound of things. The drums definantly sound alot better than previous things youve posted. They are still sound like they could be a little bit more bright overall in my opinion.
Im not really sure what to say about the guitars. They sound very honky, if that makes any sense. I prob would have picked something different tone wise for this one but i realize you arent the guitarist.
The vocals are average not really into them.
Sounds like the start of a good mix, keep it up man.
 
I like the guitar sound myself. But I don't think it stands on its own. There's a little "emptiness" in the mix.

I thought the singing was very good. Needs harmonies in the chorus.

I thougth the bass was real nice and full, but could use just a little more attack.

Heard a little pop at 1:12.

Focusing too much on the negatives... A pretty darn good sound.
 
There's way too much EQ on that main guitar.
It's killing the mix in my opinion.
 
Hmmm. . . To each his own I guess? I really can only say I hit record and did my best. I think it stands pretty well and I have heard worse make it on the radio.

I can't make the band do any better and I can't make the band change thier sound.

The guitar is run through a digital processor, not my idea, and that makes the odd sound. As far as hollow drum sound? Hmmm. . . could you elaborate?

I realize my mixes are a bit dark. I think my room accentuates highs a bit too much. Maybe its Auralex time.

Thanks for the replies
Beez
 
I'm listening on headphones, it's 1:45am here. The snare sounds too far back to me. The kick sounds really good. Bass sounds cool. The guitars aren't sitting right with me. Vocals are good. I wouldn't say this has the commercial sound, you'd get closer if you got it mastered.
 
there are some elements that are pretty close to a standard commercial sound, a few that are very far from it.

close:

drums. they sound good and punchy, however the snare and toms are too dark. the cymbals are a bit thin (could maybe use some more 6-8k).

vocals. good for the most part, but they need some treatment. perhaps some reverb, high-end EQ or even (dare i say it) an exciter. too dark.

bass. good for the most part.


not close:

guitars. the processing is just too unconventional to be considered "commerical." perhaps it they had more high-end, they could pass as simply unique but tasteful.

overall tonal balance and loudness of mix. you need more punch. you need more volume. go nuts with some multiband compression if/when you master it. this kind of music loves that stuff. it's also too dark on the whole. you're missing that harmonic excitement that's often naturally there. a good mastering engineer would fix this for you with a good exciter, likely, but it's better just to have it there to begin with.
 
**WARNING** - StudioViola-Esque post Ahead.

FattMusiek said:
I'm listening on headphones,..
Click to expand...
That's creepy...I listened awhile ago, and the first thing I noticed was how much better this mix sounds on the cans than it does on my monitors.

Okay, I'll start and end with the same theme. Overall, very damned good. Keep that in mind. :D And I'm gonna' type a lot, b/c you obviously give a crap, and...let's face it, I'm waaaay behind in the "being helpful" category these days.

I've noticed with my own crap that my favorite mixes don't really sound GREAT on either headphones or monitors - they sound kinda' the same on each...and in my car, and on a boombox, etc. So when something sounds like 4X better on headphones than on air, it usually tells me a couple of things...First, there are low lows in the mix that translate a ton better on the cans than in most real life situations...You know, that stuff that eats up a lot of headroom, sounds great on headphones, and is almost totally inaudible on anything OTHER than headphones...So it ends up making the mix sound a lot more "middy" on average systems than it would if there were more low mids to balance the mix out. Secondly, (and related), it tells me that whatever you're monitoring in/on does TOO good a job at delivering the low end to your ears, so you're not hearing the same abrasive midrange that seems to be sticking out to others. As far as being "dark," I don't get that at all...the top end of the mix sounds fine to me...it's just that this mix is one of those that is gonna' sound radically different on different systems - I'm guessing this sounds damned good in the car too, right? Cars are kinda' like headphones on the low end...but not on the top end - all that resonating "car bass" washes out the top end. I once tried to EQ a mix so that the highs sounded good in the car on a flat EQ - Fuck, was that dumb, lmao. There's a reason everybody always has the old "treble" knob maxed out in the car, lmao. Anyway, you know all this...back to the mix:

That super boxy guitar tone is super boxy, lol. I'm not talking about the same one you commented on - the tone at the beginning is more of a special effect, so you're right...totally preference there. I didn't really love it OR hate it, honestly. It was different, which is always cool. But that rhythm tone on the dirt guits is a problem, I think. I don't wanna' sound like an asshole, but I don't think it's really a "to each his own" kind of thing at all. It needs to be fixed. Did it sound like that when he tracked it? The reason I think it's a problem is b/c I don't usually notice guitar tones on songs...seriously, I'm a guitar player sort of, but something has to be either really weird (special effectish) or really BAD for me to notice a distorted guitar playing rhythm, and I noticed this in a not good way. I'm with Jake - it really does bring the whole track down. And if it was tracked that way, I don't have any ideas other than "go with it!!!", lmao. If you did some subtractive EQ on the low end of the guitar, you might think about undoing some of it so that it has some lows in it. You know, it almost sounds like a freaking acoustic guitar run through a TubeScreamer...and trust me, I know that sound, lol. I liked the shifting panning of the phased guitar personally. Always fun on headphones.

The bass and the kick are overlapping, probably @ 80Hz...I'm not looking at an analyzer or anything, but when they're soloed with only the vocal in those quiet parts, I just get a thump, and can't really make out the bass or the kick...it's not bad or wrong or anything; just something I noticed.

I like the vocal sound a ton. Not too wet, not too dry, not too middy...sounds pretty natural to me. Nice job.

I don't know enough to comment much on hats and rides and crashes, or anything remotely percussive, like a drum or anything related to a drum lol...but I will say that the brass stuck out a little too much to me at the very beginning on the monitors...didn't distract me at all on the headphones, so it's probably another one of those masking issues...The low end in the cans keeps the high mids/lo highs from sticking out so much.

Okay, I typed so freaking much that I had to look at this in the wave editor, lmao. Little L1 or L2 on this? hehehe... Don't misunderstand; I don't hear any distortion or anything, it's just a little light in the "dynamic" department, so in that regard, yes, it's radio ready, lol...anyway, I was curious about the low end, so I picked the most maxed out commercial mix I have (Audioslave...the whole freaking CD is distorted)...and on average (RMS), this mix is about 20db hotter below 50Hz than the commercial mix. That's a lot, I think. This test proves that I'm a genius, in addition to being "helpful," lol.

Ready for radio? I dunno'...sounds better than White Stripes - sounds about 5 Kajillion times better than Metallica's last album.

Okay, I'll start and end with the same theme. Overall, very damned good. Keep that in mind. :D
 
Great post ChirsHarris! I'll be wordy too.

The guitar player specifically requested the boxy sound at 1:09. I think it is a good contrast and makes the processed guitar sound more impactful.

I guess with this one I am under the thumb of a "producer." These are not necessarily the sounds I would have chosen, but to me sound tasteful. I am very happy with the kick though, that was all me. The sounds in choruses are a Mesa Dual Rec. mixed in with that processed Mesa sound. I think it is pretty powerful.

You're right, this sounds absolutely incredible in a car. Thats the only place I have been able to test it, well and on a set of Tannoy Reveal Actives. It sounded a little muddy maybe, but I really can't judge in that room because it is untreated and cinder block.

I really could use a good mastering engineer on all my mixes. I tend to get very close to the right sound most of the time.

Unfortunately, I am maxing out my computer and mixing bigger projects like this can become a pain. I really need a Uad-1 so that I can run compressors, gate, reverbs, and then run high and low pass filters all on the same track or bus. Also I am in the process of learning Samplitude 7.0. (I am using CoolEditPro 2.0 now) It is a GREAT program and allows effects on aux channels, bus channels, and on the master bus. So this way I could subgroup the drums and stick a high pass filter on them at 50hz. Then do the same for guitar but at say 100hz, and so forth. I may do a sub mix of all the instruments and still give that a go in Samplitude.

Oh yeah. Mix comments. Hmmm. On the kick I have a bit of a spike in the EQ curve at 58hz for systems with subs. That could account for a lot of the 50hz energy. The bass is a 5 string so it goes below 50hz as well. Also some of the guitar sounds might dip into that range, because I have not highpassed them. I'd like to high pass them at 100hz or 200hz and the whole mix at 40hz. I might do that still. I looked in the analyzer so I see what you mean though.

Oh yeah, there is no L2 or Limiting going on with this mix. I just tend to mix pretty hott. Red doesn't bother me unless I hear artifacts, in which case I'll kick down the master fader. L2 would have cut the tops of the peaks off at .5 db so that it never completely peaked into clip.

Bleyrad - I have reverb on the vox, but low so that you can only hear the tails in quiet sections. Also there is delay on them at the scream toward the end.

Once again thanks guys
Beez
 
The first thing I noticed when I heard the song is the snare. I love how the toms and bass drum sound, but I feel like the snare has no "crack" in it. Like the drummer is playing on a cardboard box. That is just my preference though. The only other thing I'd like to hear is a background vocals when he hits "oh god can't you.." I think that would add a very cool effect, but all in all a very good mix.
 
Wrapped up X
I'm gonna focus more on the song and not the technical part of it.
It's a real good one, I liked the breaks and how you let the guitars interact with the singing. Personally, I like the style you are into...driven by guitars with power to spare!!!
As far as sounding commercial, IMHO REAL REAL CLOSE! ! !
 
I've had songs where I thought I had the coolest guitar sound in history that I came back to a year later and could NOT listen to at all....

Remember me then.;)

But to answer the title question, everything but that one guitar sound. "Commercial" is relative and this song gets real close to a decent commercial product in every aspect. I couldn't tell you how great the mix is unless I had this on a console or DAW and could mute the rythym guitar....it's that bad. It's masking half the range of the drums. I don't think the snare sould be as lost if there was a more complimentary tone on that ONE guitar.

Ok, I'm done...good job.:D
 
I would say no matter how well it's produced right now I think it's the style that's going to hold this back from being grouped with today's commercial music.

There's no doubt to me that the vocalist sounds like he's 80's/90's metal and it gives the cut a dated feel very contrary to what is in rotation today.

It could depend on what kind of station you're talking about too. This could make it on plenty of radio stations but if you're talking about the 100,000watters i'd say not as is.

If you hadn't mentioned shooting for radio quality I'm sure i'd be complimenting you on a nice recording, but since you've set the bar high the song has to endure a higher caliber of scrutiny.

The song is well written and I actually enjoyed the guitar sounds and though the eq was pretty interesting. There are definitely some drum issues. I would really revise the vox. The f/x were very well done.

Overall a very well done job, good luck with continued development.
 
I think the guitar sound is very cool and unique. And this sounds pretty close to commercial to me. But then again, I don't really listen to much commercial music.

Good work!
 
Jake-Owa - Won't any distorted guitar start masking the drums when it is mixed so far forward as this one? I think I see what you mean though. I high passed the guitar at 150hz to let some more bass and toms come through. Hopefully that helps. I am posting an updated mix.

Khompewtur - What are the drum issues? I am considering Drumagoging the snare track and mixing in a fat sounding sample to strengthen the snare sound. Do you think that would help? I have opened the gate a little more on the snare to let a little more tone through, maybe this will help. Let me know.

Here is a list of things I "fixed"

1. high passed distorted guitars at 150hz
2. high passed bass drum and bass at 40hz
3. opened the gate on snare to let more sound through, for better sound hopefully
4. evened the toms out as the 3rd and 4th were much louder than toms 1 and 2
5. turned up guitar, snare, vox



Beez
 
Last edited:
I wish I still had the original file to A/B, but I had to dump half of my hard drive yesterday, and the mp3's took a big hit, lol.

The reason I'd like the original file is just to keep me from totally talking out of my ass, b/c I think the guitar actually sounds better...or, let's say, less offensive, and I would have bet money that a low pass on that guitar would have (1) helped the low end of the mix, which it did; and (2) made that guitar sound worse - which I DON'T think it did...maybe it's just further back, or maybe I've just slept since then, but it doesn't offend me as much as it did before...Could just be that I'm flakey, which is a known fact.

It hit me on this listen who that singer reminds me of. Sounds like the guy from a band called "Jackal." Man, I hated Jackal, lol.

Okay...that's the quick and dirty. I'm rushing today, lol.
 
fprod south said:
But then again, I don't really listen to much commercial music.
Click to expand...

Snob...



Sorry Phil, couldn't resist.

USA! Number 1! USA! Number 1!

LOL :D

Beezoboy, most of my comments have been covered already.
 
Listening on head-phones...I don't think this is radio quality yet, but it is very good. The mids sound like they are really taking over the mix and the balance between them and the bass and treble is just not quite there yet...it doesn't have that "sparkle" I guess you would call it that is true for anything on the radio.

Not a bad song, though, and very well played. Great "rock-star" vocals there! Very nice.

:D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top