Does Neumann Sell Any Mics These Days?

[Vikki]

Theres loads of companies selling recording mics these days and many are aimed at the Neumann sound and i think some of the Chinese models may be pretty good. So whats happening at Neumann these days. They always seemed to be a bit of a stuffy company selling their products to big buck studios and broadcast companies and no time for the little folk. Its probably everyones dream to own a top flight Neumann. So have they been left behind and not changed with the times or are they still selling as many mics as ever, or are their workers sitting twiddling their thumbs.
Just a thought.
Vikki(uk)i

 

[Han]

I happen to have a Neumann M149, which is one of the most expensive mics they make. It's a nice mic but the MXL V77 I have, comes pretty close to the M149 sound (in cardioid).

It may be that I have a very good V77, can't compare to another V77, but I would be a bit worried if I was the owner of the Neumann company.

I have no idea whether they sell more or less mics than 10 or 15 years ago, they raised their prices some 30% a year ago though.

Do Rolls Royce sell any cars these days? And what about Ferrari?

 

[OneRoomStudios]

I think they probably sell enough based on thier name alone. There are plenty of independantly wealthy people out there who know very little about mics but they know the name "Neumann" so they buy them. Think of all those project studios in super stars homes. Even Shaq has a home studio. I bet he has a Neumann, maybe a couple...

 

[sdelsolray]

Twenty years ago Neumann sold mostly to the recording and broadcast business, not hobbyists. Same is true today. Dunno if the sales volume is up or down. The explosion of mic sales to hobbyists, small studios, etc. is a different marketing channel. Neumann has made some products to compete here, the TLM 103, TLM 193, TLM 127 and KM 184.

Many new mic companies have appeared in recent years. Several are "boutique" and compete directly with Neumann and other established manufacturers (e.g., Schoeps, AKG, Microtech Gefell). These companies include Lawson, Soundelux, Telefunken USA, Brauner, Josephson, T.H.E., Korby, Peluso. These companies seem to be doing well. They generally only sell high end mics. So I imagine the high end market is doing just fine.

I'm actually routing for Microtech Gefell. They make really, really nice mics. Many are based on the old Neumann technology. Many beleive (myself included) that the East German Microtech Gefell is the real Neumann company, carrying on in the true tradition, and that the West German Neumann is no longer the Neumann company, particularly after Sennheiser bought it in 1991.

 

[Farview]

You can buy Neumanns at Guitar Center now.

 

[DJL]

I bet the distributors spreading BS on the internet about their cheap Chinese made budget mics sounding like Neumann mics hasn't helped Neumann's business any.

 

[xfinsterx]

I bet the distributors spreading BS on the internet about their cheap Chinese made budget mics sounding like Neumann mics hasn't helped Neumann's business any.

Agreed.

They wont go out of buisness....thats for sure.
The KM184's alone will float them around for years to come.

 

[Middleman]

I owned a couple of around $1000 Neumanns and ended up selling them. I can get just as good of results with lower priced mics i.e. Rode and some of the Marshall mics. The key however was putting money into some decent preamps. A really good preamp can make an inexpensive mic work for you.

 

[ozraves]

I've heard different things about how the high-end market is fairing. However, Sennheiser, Neumann's parent company, appears to be doing well: http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf/root/press_releases_apc2004

 

[Harvey Gerst]

I bet the distributors spreading BS on the internet about their cheap Chinese made budget mics sounding like Neumann mics hasn't helped Neumann's business any.

You just can't shut the fuck up about this stuff, can you DJL?

As a matter of fact, a few years ago, I sent some of my Chinese and Russian mics to a friend at Neumann USA, so they could hear what some of these mics sounded like. They were amazed at how close some of the mics came to matching the sound of the much more expensive Neumanns. (My friend has since moved on to another company, so I'm not breaching any confidence by disclosing this much of their findings.)

And no, DJL, I'm not going to go into any of the details about exactly which models of Chinese and Russian mics Neumann thought were good sounding mics. That WOULD be a breach of confidence, since any discussions I had about their findings were "off the record".

DJL, you can continue to sound the trumpet, warning people away from "cheap Chinese made budget mics", but I can tell you from personal experience that you're "throwing the baby out with the bath water", and making a fool of yourself in the process, at least with the people that really understand microphone design.

Yes, there are some bad Chinese and Russian mics out there, but there are also some really good Chinese and Russian mics out there, too.

 

[sdelsolray]

I owned a couple of around $1000 Neumanns and ended up selling them. I can get just as good of results with lower priced mics i.e. Rode and some of the Marshall mics. The key however was putting money into some decent preamps. A really good preamp can make an inexpensive mic work for you.

Did you get the better preamps after selling the Neumanns? I have no doubt better results can be obtained with Rode or Marshall mics (even with the same pres). However, I have no doubt that better results can be obtained with the Neumann mics. Depends on the mics, pres, application etc. Perhaps you could add the detail (exact mics, pres, application, etc.). It would be helpful.

In my case I replaced a Neumann M149 with other mics. I record only solo fingerstyle acoutic guitar. I use a pair of SDs (usually ORTF) and one LD (to fill in the center). Although the M149 is an incredible mic, I found two other mics work better in this specific application, a Microtech Gefell UMT 800 and/or a CAD VX2. The SDs I'm using are Schoeps CMC6/MK4 through a Pendulum Audo MDP-1a pre. The LD goes through either a John Hardy M-2 or a Pendulum Audio SPS-1.

I don't think the Gefell or CAD "beat" the M149 for all purposes. Indeed, when using just one mic (no SDs), I prefered the M149. However, when mixed with the Schoeps pair, using the pres mentioned, for the specific application of solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar, I like the Gefell and CAD better than the Neumann.

As far the SDs go, I got the Schoeps to replace a pair of Neumann KM184s. Night and day. Like the difference between a Range Rover and a Ford Explorer. However, that difference is anectodal at best, and is specifically tied to the my pres, room, converters, and application.

I've tried numerous other SDs with the same gear and application, including the ususal suspects (SM81, NT5, MC-012, C4, 451B, C42). OK but these mics don't compare to the Schoeps, again with my gear for my application. The only other SD I've tried that I would like to have (again with my gear for my application) is the Microtech Gefell M295.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that no blanket statement such as "X is better than Y" can ever be completely true or accurate. It will depend on the facts and circumstances.

 

[crazydoc]

...and making a fool of yourself in the process,...

...and making a fool of yourself in the process,...

...and making a fool of yourself in the process,...

...and making a fool of yourself in the process,...

...and making a fool of yourself in the process,...

...........

 

[alanhyatt]

I bet the distributors spreading BS on the internet about their cheap Chinese made budget mics sounding like Neumann mics hasn't helped Neumann's business any.

You are a sick fuck DJL, and this is why. You know this dig is against my products and my company, but you had to do it. You just do not know when enough is enough. You don't learn, and we are all tired of you Spamming these threads with your anti-PMI bullshit. I am tired of it as well.

You know, anyone can spend a few hundred dollars to a PI, and your address can be posted all over the internet. Imagine all the mail and gift packages you would get.

 

[DJL]

I stand by what I said... and I'll even say it again.

I bet the distributors spreading BS on the internet about their cheap Chinese made budget mics sounding like Neumann mics hasn't helped Neumann's business any.

 

[sdelsolray]

I stand by what I said... and I'll even say it again.

I bet the distributors spreading BS on the internet about their cheap Chinese made budget mics sounding like Neumann mics hasn't helped Neumann's business any.

Well, if the information spread comparing these other mics to Neumann mics is true, then I guess it would hurt Neumann's business, given the price difference. On the other hand, if the information is not true, it actually might enhance Neumann sales, if the price and quality difference is worth it to the potential purchaser.

 

[DJL]

You are a sick fuck DJL, and this is why. You know this dig is against my products and my company, but you had to do it. You just do not know when enough is enough. You don't learn, and we are all tired of you Spamming these threads with your anti-PMI bullshit. I am tired of it as well.

You know, anyone can spend a few hundred dollars to a PI, and your address can be posted all over the internet. Imagine all the mail and gift packages you would get.

Alan, check your PM box.

 

[alanhyatt]

Theres loads of companies selling recording mics these days and many are aimed at the Neumann sound and i think some of the Chinese models may be pretty good. So whats happening at Neumann these days. So have they been left behind and not changed with the times or are they still selling as many mics as ever, or are their workers sitting twiddling their thumbs. Just a thought. Vikki(uk)i

Neumann is in no danger right now, but I think they have felt a pinch from other companies. You have to understand, Neumann owns many factories, employs many people, has many offices all over the world, and pays a lot of taxes. Their overhead is a ton. Their mikes have to be expensive to pay for all of this.

Several years ago, some mic companies, and other companies looking to get into the microphone business, looked offshore to build. The technology was good, but the implementation was poor. Several brands decided to jump into the market by buying off the shelf microphones from these Chinese assemblers and putting their brand names on it. This started with RODE, then Marshall. ADK jumped in before I did, and even some European companies like BPM did the same thing, but they were off the shelf catalog mikes.

This was a very inexpensive way to get a decent sounding mic for very little money, but they broke a good deal, QC was terrible and many of them sounded really bad. Brent Casey later joined Marshall and did some improvements, but it was clear to Brent, they did not want to do much. His suggestions and ideas were rejected. By that time, I had been doing it differently. I was taking what was there, and changing it from the ground up. I was one of the first to bring better quality out of China. Then we spent time there to be sure the build quality was there, and the QC was extensive. This is why I suggested to 797 to become my partner sort of speak. They do not own any portion of my company, but I convinced them that if I let them put their name as the builders of Studio Projects, that I expected something for it. That was the changes I designed, and total QC with better build tolerances.

Then Brent Casey who was disappointed with Marshall came to me via Harvey Gerst. I hired Brent and he has taken my start much further. Now, there are many offshore companies out there, and the reason these offshore products are getting better, is the designers like Brent are telling these companies how to do things. Some do it right, and yet, there is still a good deal of junk out there.

Each year, the off shore products get better and better. Soon, Neumann will have to do something about it, or they may get hurt. They are fine right now, but by the end of 2005, more upscale products will be coming. I can tell you we have more upscale microphone products coming in 2005, and I suspect some other companies like Peluso and others will do the same. These new products will be hard pressed to be beat.

Remember, when Japan first started their electronic revolution, everyone said the quality sucked. Now, they are revered as the leader in QC and quality. This will happen in China. They know they have to be better. If not, they will lose the business. Neumann will be looking at all of this, but they could open a factory in China if they want to.

So, there is my take on your question...

 

[mshilarious]

You know, anyone can spend a few hundred dollars to a PI, and your address can be posted all over the internet. Imagine all the mail and gift packages you would get.

Regardless of DJL's oft-stated opinion of your products I don't think that thinly veiled threats in a public forum are appropriate.

 

[Dot]

The market for microphones of all price ranges is larger than it's ever been. Neumann is still producing superb products -and they've introduced more affordable mics in the last few years.

What is a "real" Neumann these days, anyway?

Neumann/Sennheiser is sort of like AMS Neve [ and many other companies ]. Neither is the original company anymore. The Neumann family now owns Microtech Gefell - which was originally a division of Neumann, but lesser known because Gefell was based in Berlin behind the Iron Curtain for so many years. If you want a new mic with a real M7 capsule - designed by Neumann in '49, Gefell is the only company that makes them.

There are many companies that ride on the reputation of products developed in the middle of the 20th century. It doesn't mean they don't make perfectly good products today - but they are not the same products upon which their reputation is based. Even the "Neve" 1073, 1081, and 1084 preamps made by AMS Neve today are "reproductions". If you go to buy anything designed today by Rupert Neve - his products are much cleaner, more accurate, and sound nothing like vintage Neve gear. What's a real Neve these days?

What's a real Rolls Royce these days? They were owned by Vickers, then Volkswagon, and now by BMW.

If you want the original Neumann or Neve sound, then you're going to have to shell out for the used "vintage" originals. And even those units vary in condition and sonic quality - so there's no guarantees. And you might want to have a studio tech on-call for maintenance. Or you might want to try one of the many companies making excellent reproductions and products based on classic gear.

 

[Middleman]

Did you get the better preamps after selling the Neumanns? QUOTE]

No, I added a Voicemaster Pro and a Great River 1NV, did some shootouts with my mics and decided that the Neumanns were not adding to the mix all that much and yet they locked up a lot of dollars. So I sold them and bought some other gear my little studio was lacking, headphone preamps, bass guitar and bass amp. I already had the other mics.