Does anyone slice up their vocal tracks and level match each syllable or note?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Scott Baxendale
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Scott Baxendale

Scott Baxendale

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I saw a tutorial on how to take a vocal track and slice up every point where the wav changes amplitude and level balance the low levels with the high levels. I do this as sort of a manual type of compression. Once I have spent the time doing this step I think my vocals sit in the mix better. I still do the other normal vocal processing but start with this manual editing technique.
 
That strikes me as incredibly tedious. Although I get that in service to a fine finished product that may be well worth the effort.
 
I tend to use a lot of automation on vocal tracks. Ironically to make them sound more natural.
 
All that editing sounds like a lot of work.
Better to use a singer who knows how to work a mic.
I have a mini durrough level meter. I’ve plugged it in to an insert and put it in front of a singer to where they can see their own levels. Good training for mic technique
 
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Scott Baxendale said:
I saw a tutorial on how to take a vocal track and slice up every point where the wav changes amplitude and level balance the low levels with the high levels. I do this as sort of a manual type of compression. Once I have spent the time doing this step I think my vocals sit in the mix better. I still do the other normal vocal processing but start with this manual editing technique.
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First off, screw tutorials that say there is an 'only' one way to do anything. There is no 'one' simple way to deal with any vocal. Ever. Especially vocalists that we may not feel that are 'vocalists'..

Depending on the type of vocal or whatever genre it is, it is always different.

I personally like to record a scratch vocal and see what is possibly needed later. Then decide what possibilities might help the recording. Mic placement, headphone on or off one ear, flavor of pizza, or maybe the smell of my cologne... LOL

A true heart felt performance is always the best ever. We all try to find that as the holy grail.

That does not always happen, so we sometimes have to place them together.

So back to the original question, if the vocal was great to start with, why would anything need to be done to fix it? That is really the question.

But then, that is the world we seem to live in now. Gone are the days of the great musicians just doing it right the first time...


Not bitter, just honest.
 
I've never once cut up a track to level match sections. I thought that was what a compressor does. I've automated some things but it usually where a whole section needs a boost, not each syllable.

Talk about taking the soul out of music. I thought dynamics was a part of music.
 
PorterhouseMusic said:
That strikes me as incredibly tedious. Although I get that in service to a fine finished product that may be well worth the effort.
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It takes some time but, not that long, and find the results very satisfying. I still do the other stuff that is being suggested.
 
TalismanRich said:
I've never once cut up a track to level match sections. I thought that was what a compressor does. I've automated some things but it usually where a whole section needs a boost, not each syllable.

Talk about taking the soul out of music. I thought dynamics was a part of music.
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I don’t find it at all soul sapping, at least in the way I’ve done it. I still do some of the compression, EQ , etc, but after level matching the vocals it becomes more present without sounding over compressed. It is kind of a manual compression, but it doesn’t sound compressed.

Other tricks-such as to fatten up a vocal you can copy it 8 times and repitch 2 @ +/- 2 cents, 2 @ +/- 4 cents and 2@ +/- 6 cents. Are helpful too. I have done this trick a few times.
 
JimmyS1969 said:
First off, screw tutorials that say there is an 'only' one way to do anything. There is no 'one' simple way to deal with any vocal. Ever. Especially vocalists that we may not feel that are 'vocalists'..

Depending on the type of vocal or whatever genre it is, it is always different.

I personally like to record a scratch vocal and see what is possibly needed later. Then decide what possibilities might help the recording. Mic placement, headphone on or off one ear, flavor of pizza, or maybe the smell of my cologne... LOL

A true heart felt performance is always the best ever. We all try to find that as the holy grail.

That does not always happen, so we sometimes have to place them together.

So back to the original question, if the vocal was great to start with, why would anything need to be done to fix it? That is really the question.

But then, that is the world we seem to live in now. Gone are the days of the great musicians just doing it right the first time...


Not bitter, just honest.
Click to expand...
I wanted a vocal track to have the kind of in your face presence that you get from a Sheryl Crow record so I went down a rabbit hole and the best technique I found to get that kind of sound on the vocal was to slice it up and bring down the hot sections and bring up the lower sections prior to post processing. Usually it’s only a 2-3 db one way or the other, but if I spend a few minutes doing editing it this way, and adding the traditional plugins or hardware, I instantly could get that kind of sound on a track. It’s a trick used by some big mix engineers and I was curious if anyone else here had tried anything similar?
 
RFR said:
All that editing sounds like a lot of work.
Better to use a singer who knows how to work a mic.
I have a mini durrough level meter. I’ve plugged it in to an insert and put it in front of a singer to where they can see their own levels. Good training for mic technique
Click to expand...
It’s not really about good mic technique as it is about how the vocal sounds on a record. It’s a technique I have learned about to help get a really in your face pop vocal sound by doing this bit of editing prior to the traditional vocal post processing. I have a vintage 1176 and every Apollo and Waves plugin for vocals, but doing this editing helps me a lot when mixing.

It takes 15-30 minutes to do the editing for a typical vocal track, it’s not as tedious as it might seem.
 
I always start with a limiter just to slightly shave the top off the loudest parts, careful to not over do it. Automation is your friend then pop "Vocal Rider" on the track. Also very easy to bring it into melodyne & adjust any words I feel fall off too much.

Gee I guess there is 4 different methods right there?
 
The idea of doing this could well be the way for an extremely narrow genre of music where human historic singing perfection is not wanted and for some crazy reason, having everything levelled to within an inch of its life is a positive??

Modern techniques can be applied for many older genres. My opera singer who discovered pitch correction, for example, but chopping up syllables? Really?

Im struggling to imagine what such a process would sound like. I cannot imagine it would sound like a singer, to be honest.
 
Scott Baxendale said:
It’s not really about good mic technique as it is about how the vocal sounds on a record. It’s a technique I have learned about to help get a really in your face pop vocal sound by doing this bit of editing prior to the traditional vocal post processing. I have a vintage 1176 and every Apollo and Waves plugin for vocals, but doing this editing helps me a lot when mixing.

It takes 15-30 minutes to do the editing for a typical vocal track, it’s not as tedious as it might seem.
Click to expand...
Any examples of the final product of that technique?
 
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I've certainly chopped and adjusted amplitude for passages that seemed a little quiet, or loud,
or in some cases one particular word or syllable that gets lots, or jumps out,
but I wouldn't be going through a whole track to do it word by word.

Saying that, though, there are plugins which come close to doing what you describe automatically.
Waves Vocal Rider, for example, can be set with upper and lower limits, and a reaction speed, then pulls the vocal up and down in real time if it goes above, or below, whatever you set.

I have used that in cases where I want the vocal to be very consistent, but it's not a go-to tool for any and all vocal for me.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Saying that, though, there are plugins which come close to doing what you describe automatically.
Waves Vocal Rider,
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I do this before I add the vocal rider plugin. I usually go from the vocal rider into an 1176 or LA2A
 
I don’t get it Scott, that sounds like its just compressed? I cant believe all that work, syllable by syllable makes it through differently to a compressor doing it’s thing?
 
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