do you get what you pay for w/ mic pre's

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stoctony

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there is a good thread in the mic's about getting what you pay for. I learned that you can cheat a little in the home recording Biz. Does that go for mic preamps. I do mostly solo acoustic and am worried more about the gutiar than the vocal side. I am looking at about 200$. Should I just quit looking until I can pry more money from my wifes deathly grip?

Thanks
Stockton
 
Tried the new Joe Meek 3Q at the NAMM convention and was quite impressed.
Will be getting it when it's available in a few weeks from now.
It sounded like a Grace unit's pre's and seemed superior to the DMP3 IMHO,
although those pre's are good too.

There is also a compression and EQ section included on the 3Q.

Chris
 
You're going to get a lot of different opinions on the subject, which will likely vary a great deal. And they should, because it's a grey area. So much of it depends on how serious you are about your recording; what are your goals for it, and how strong is the rest of your signal chain? And what level are you at as an engineer? In other words, if you're just a semi-serious novice engineer, then what in the holy hell do you need a professional-level tool for? (Do you even have the necessary skills to put it to good use and derive benefit from it?)

What it all comes down to is individual need. So use whatever gets you the sound you want/need. If you don't know what that is, then see if you can rent a higher-end mic pre for a weekend. If you're too lazy to go that route, then 3D-audio has an entire CD that does nothing but compare different mic pres. The Listening Sessions is another good example (www.thelisteningsessions.com). Do some comparisons between the nice ones and some other budget pres, and evaluate the finished products carefuly and decide from there if the added price is justified . . . or if it's an area you feel you can skimp on.

That said, here's my opinion: I don't think the mic pre is where a home recordist should first start looking when it comes to upgrading your gear list. If you're getting paid for your work or striving to do this professionally, then I think you might start to see a payoff . . . but even then, I'd still advise upgrading/investing in the weakest and most important parts of your signal chain first. Having a really nice tube guitar amp on hand that records well . . . or having a nice Fender Jazz (American-made), precision, Musicman, etc. . . . or being able to hire a drum tech for the day . . . not to mention having a nice selection of mics and a killer monitoring system to listen and make decisions with . . .

these are all going to make a serious difference in your recordings.

Having nice mic pres to plug all this stuff in to is just extra icing on your cake.
 
Yeah...just a good clean sounding pre can be had for under $150...good mics can make that chain awsome.

The mic is a better place to get an upgrade for the money...
 
I think you need to consider the entire signal chain when considering an upgrade.
Sure, the microphone is the most obvious starting point, but that's only going to get you so far.
I started off with an Audio Buddy mic pre. The name alone should have been a dead giveaway that it was a piece of crap.

In my experience, there just isn't a whole lot of difference in a $100 pre and a $300 pre.

Not to sound elitist, but it seemed that it wasn't until you get upwards of $500 to $1500 per channel, and more, that you'll notice a marked improvement in your pres. Then you'll be able to pick out the very subtle differences of moving a mic one inch or so.

But pres of that calibre are beyond the realm of home recording... for the most part. People tend to worry about pres that have this "color" or that color, but the rooms most of us record in are so sonically inept, that you're getting more (bad) coloration from the room, than you'd be able to pick out from the pre.
If I just HAD to have a new pre for a home studio, I'd look for the absolute CLEANEST pre I could afford. The Grace 101 comes to mind... at least from what I've heard about it.

Do you get what you pay for in a mic pre? I think so, but I STILL say the best investment you can make as a home recorder is to treat your room.
 
I think a spin on everything mentioned so far is......

..... track count also.

I probably cant hear a dramatic difference (like $1000 to $1500 dollars per channel worth of difference) between a DMP3 and a Great River if I'm listening to one track side by side ........ sure the Great River will sound better (more detailed etc) but two tracks probably wont a $1500 difference.

BUT........ stack 24 tracks together with each and the difference will be MUCH more apparent.

However ....... how many home recordists are actually doing 24 track songs??

I dont know the answer to that but I would say most probably dont use that many tracks ..... especially the acoustic singer/songwriter home rec-er.

BUT it certainly is a neccessary part of your signal chain.

I am at that stage now where my track count are increasing and looking into bettering that part of my chain.

One piece at a time.

-mike
 
if your doing alot of DI'ing, like synths....a good pre will make a difference...if your mostly micing things then a mic would make a larger difference
 
You do get what you pay for. The difference between a budget pre and an expensive premium pre is startling. As has also been mentioned, the differences also get magnified once you start laying track upon track in the mix.

A great mic into a great pre that are matched for the tone color you want, is the way to go.
 
Here's some good news to those who can't afford the best stuff yet.

When I first started doing this home studio thing I really couldn't hear a lot of difference between different preamps. As I worked with what I had, tracking and mixing various projects, I was actually training my ears to hear subtle differences in eq and level.

By spending hours on subtle mic placement changes, boosting or cutting 2 or 3 db of certain frequencies and trying different compressors on the same source my ears started "opening up".

Slowly but surely, my ability to hear the difference between my TC Electronic Gold Channel, my JoeMeek VC3 and my Peavey VMP-2 improved. At one point I had to trade in my monitors for something better, since they too are a huge part of this sonic equation.

Now I have a Neve 1272 clone and Hardy Twin Servo clone and boy, can I hear the difference.

The good news is, as you begin to hear the differences, you'll make a way to buy the stuff you want to hear.
 
The reigning king of the under $200 pre's in the clean catagory is reputed to be
the Rane MS1B. "Dot" aka Dan Richards evaluates it as a "Jr. John Hardy"
and doesn't think of it as a budget pre. Roger Nichols had it in an informal
pre shootout as a joke, and it surprisingly beat out a number of high end pre's.

My expectation is that the 3Q is comparable to the Rane, again based on an A/B comparison of a Grace 801. Suspect the 3Q will eclipse the MS1B in terms of value as a result of the 3Q having the extra processing sections.

Chris
 
Chris, you're getting me all excited about the new Meek Pre..........when's it due to spring from the womb?
 
Mic pre and Solo Acoustic

What are you currently recording to? Hard disk or Tape?...I found out that miking an acoustic guitar (and voice) without a mike preamp was difficult. A Shure 57 mike needs the boost from a mike pre to get the signal on either tape or disk. It gives a clean boost to get the signal loud (gain?) to the mixer. I have a Tascam 414mkii, and recorded 6 months w/o a seperate mic preamp. The tascam has a preamp stage, but if you crank it high enough I notice distortion on the signal. I bought a Aphex 107 mic pre used on ebay for $125.00, it had the best all around comments from Harmony Central site
and for the money, I don't think I could have done better. It provides the necessary gain to the Tascam for voice, acoustic guitar and miking an amplifier without any distortion. I can still use the tascam pre to adjust the level going to tape. It fit my budget and gets the job done. Maybe I could have spent more for something newer or more audiophile. But it fine for any Townes Van Zandt, Steve Earle, or Clash type raw songs you might come up with.
 
Phosphene, Alan emailed me back that it should be available within a few weeks recently. They cleaned up the circuitry compared to the old Meeks,
although they were a good value in their day.

The other cool product to look forward to are some cables they're going to be selling pretty soon too that he and Brent are excited about.
Seems like there going to have 1/4" balanced TRS, in addition to the standard XLR's.

Chris

P.S. The Aphex 107 was the first nice "project studio" level pre I bought.
The more gain you use, the quieter it becomes!
Interesting gain structure going on.
 
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