Dithering

  • Thread starter Thread starter DonaldChang
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DonaldChang

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What is the best software for dithering that doesn't cause significant damage...so like I can convert a 24/48 file to 24/44.1?
 
What software are you currently using to do what you just said?
 
That's sample-rate conversion - Dithering is an entirely different and unrelated process.

And there are some really, really bad SRC's out there...

You can try Voxengo's r8brain... A pretty nice software SRC - I think there's a "LE" type freeware version available.
 
Dithering is really just a way of smoothing out the bits. I might be wrong here but I think dither adds lo level distortion.
Add dither to your master out at bounce stage and bounce to multiple mono rather that stereo interleaved. Then dither each mono track, and keep the track as multiple mono until it is ready to go onto CD at 16bit.
 
ecktronic said:
Dithering is really just a way of smoothing out the bits. I might be wrong here but I think dither adds lo level distortion.
Add dither to your master out at bounce stage and bounce to multiple mono rather that stereo interleaved. Then dither each mono track, and keep the track as multiple mono until it is ready to go onto CD at 16bit.
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Ecktronic -

Not sure where you're getting your info from but interleaving audio should not affect dithering, it's just a format for storing the audio.
 
masteringhouse said:
Ecktronic -
Not sure where you're getting your info from but interleaving audio should not affect dithering, it's just a format for storing the audio.
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This is from the Digi design Pro Tools course. They say that bouncing to multiple mono and dithering each seperately is better than stereo interleaved and then dithering the one stereo track.
I know there prob wont be much noticeable difference but think this is if you really want to get the perfect sound with no errors etc.
Could be wrong but just what i was told.
 
I believe he is correct in saying that Digi was saying that.
 
ecktronic said:
This is from the Digi design Pro Tools course. They say that bouncing to multiple mono and dithering each seperately is better than stereo interleaved and then dithering the one stereo track.
I know there prob wont be much noticeable difference but think this is if you really want to get the perfect sound with no errors etc.
Could be wrong but just what i was told.
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That may be true, but it would mean that Digi has a broken system as it indicates they are applying the same dither to both channels...
 
I still don't understand.

Why would I want to add noise to my signal?
 
Yes please send a link on where Digi has mentioned this. Pro tools has a dithered mixer, so this makes even less sense to me.
 
bigwillz24 said:
I still don't understand.

Why would I want to add noise to my signal?
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When downsampling, one is reducing the word length; for example from 48 bits to 24bits. When one simply chops off the last 24 bits, that in itself is, by definition, already adding noise to the signal. Dithering adds a random element to that noise that actually "smooths" the harshness of that noise as it is interperted by the human ear.

It's not the most intuitive concept in the world, I agree, but it works.

G.
 
Spread the fingers of your hand in front of your eyes and look at your computer monitor. Notice how portions are blocked off and not visible? Now start to move your hand quickly back and forth. More of the screen can now be seen. This is kind of the concept behing dithering, adding a bit of noise to toggle the low order bit in order to "trick" the ear into hearing more than just truncating it.
 
masteringhouse said:
Spread the fingers of your hand in front of your eyes and look at your computer monitor. Notice how portions are blocked off and not visible? Now start to move your hand quickly back and forth. More of the screen can now be seen. This is kind of the concept behing dithering, adding a bit of noise to toggle the low order bit in order to "trick" the ear into hearing more than just truncating it.
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nice! that's a good way of explaining it
 
masteringhouse said:
Yes please send a link on where Digi has mentioned this. Pro tools has a dithered mixer, so this makes even less sense to me.
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I dont have a link, I knew someone who went on the Digi course and they were told that. Maybe he got his wires crossed.

I kinda had the idea that most good digital software dithered anything that was being processed anyway, but then as a plug-in dither was added as an extra. Am i anywhere right at all?

Im just going by stuff ive heard through the grape vine. Sorry if am confusing anyone. :confused:
 
well, the way dither is added in Pro Tools is on the Master Fader...which is post fader. If you bounce to disk and select convert after bounce, it will play out the audio and pass through the dither process...THEN after it's done, PT will convert the audio to a stereo interleaved file.

while it's bouncing PT creates temporary multiple mono files until it gets to the conversion stage...then it combines them. So really you'll be applying dither to multiple mono files first anyway. That, and you can create 2 mono master faders and set two mono Dither plugins on them if you're really were worried about it.


as a side note, I read something interesting today about needing to dither no matter what bit depth you're working at. Even if your audio files are in 16 bit already and you're just going to stay at 16 bit, Pro Tools (and I'm sure other programs too) process and mix the audio at a higher bit depth (in PT TDM it's 48bit, while LE is 32bit-float). Also, the I/O signal paths work in 24bit. So if 16 bit is the target resolution, you should always have dither added to your signal.
 
bennychico11 said:
well, the way dither is added in Pro Tools is on the Master Fader...which is post fader. If you bounce to disk and select convert after bounce, it will play out the audio and pass through the dither process...THEN after it's done, PT will convert the audio to a stereo interleaved file.
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Benny -

Are you certain of this? It seems that if you insert a dithering plug on the master fader that dithering would be applied at the depth of your choosing and the bounce would simply be taking the digital stream from the main bus. There "shouldn't" be any additional dithering beyond that point.
 
masteringhouse said:
Benny -

Are you certain of this? It seems that if you insert a dithering plug on the master fader that dithering would be applied at the depth of your choosing and the bounce would simply be taking the digital stream from the main bus. There "shouldn't" be any additional dithering beyond that point.
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yeah, that's what i was saying....maybe i said it in a confusing way. what I meant by converting after bounce is just the actual conversion of bit depth and sample rate math is done after bouncing. also the files are then converted to stereo interleaved if you have chosen that option (they remain in mono until this process). but, like you said, dither is applied to the main bus and therefore anything coming off that bus is what is being written to disk.
 
im talkin about like the single wav file that im just about to burn to CD but have to dither and SRC it down...are you?I hear engineers ask for mono files only instead of stereo, but multiple mono for the single track?
 
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