Dithering- where?

  • Thread starter Thread starter CDeanP
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CDeanP

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I'm stumped. I've read many articles and understand that dithering should be done at the final stage of file processing and only once. But... here's my scenario. I record the mixed song from my DAT machine into the computer using CEP (at 32-bit FP). I like CEP's up close editing abilities. When finished, I save the file as a 24-bit file with the 'Dither' option turned off, so I can open it in Wavelab. I use Wavelab because I like the mastering section and montage. One of the plug-ins I use is DSP/fx's Optimizer. It has a dither option (which I have been using). I have the Optimizer as the last plug-in, before it goes back to the Wavelab master section "overall" volume sliders. There is also a dither option on the master section- which I have turned off (I feel the Optimizer's is better than this one). After the files have been processed- it's still in 24-bit. I must get the file to 16-bit for CD burning, does it need to be dithered here instead. My questions are: 1) should the steps above be changed, 2) where should I be dithering and 3) Is it that noticeable if I convert (or save- don't remember which option Wavelab has) the processed 24-bit file to 16-bit, at which point I would ask, should it be dithered again or not?
 
Engage which ever dithering option you would like so that it is applied while the other processing is taking place. Make sure you pick the 16 bit option for the dithering. Elect to "Process in place". Hit "Apply" in the Master section.

You will now have a modified 24 bit file with dithering noise add at the appropriate level for a 16 bit recording.

Go to File> Save Special > Convert. You will see a options box. Make sure it is at 16 bit/ 44.1KHz sampling rate, hit "Okay". Then you get the window to select where you want to save the file to. You are done. The file will be saved as a 16 bit file now, with the lower bits truncated off, but this truncation doesn't matter because you have 16 dithering applied.

Ed
 
Excellent- doesn't sound like I was too far off.

What about when I save the file in CEP from 32-bit to 24-bit. Should I leave the dithering option off since I am processing the file further (in Wavelab)?
 
Don't use that yucky wanna be crapola 32 bit floating point crap!

If your soundcard is 24 bit, record at that bit rate. That CEP 32 "bit" crap is exactly that! CRAP!

Ed
 
hi,

is it a good idea to apply a dithering plugin to a master bus before mixing, so that one can mix the way it will sound,

or will it be better to get a pleasing mix and then put the plugin on the master bus and let it do its job?

thanks
 
Actually Cyan the plug-in will work both ways and accomplish the same thing. In your first scenarioits working in realtime..but with the second scenario you can do it in real time or process it a destructive edit in your mastering software. The L1 Ultramaximer
is a good example of this. This would also be the way it would be done with a hardware version of the same type tool.
 
sonusman said:
Don't use that yucky wanna be crapola 32 bit floating point crap!

If your soundcard is 24 bit, record at that bit rate. That CEP 32 "bit" crap is exactly that! CRAP!

Ed
Click to expand...
Ed,

Why is the 32 bit thing so terrible? I thought that this would be a good thing....shows how much I know huh? :D

-tkr
 
Tekker,

I know you addressed to Ed, but let give you a bit of
information that I have stumbled across. There appears to
be two types of software design specificly being used to
perform the internal processing on digital audio. These are fixed
point and floating point. There is an ongoing argument as to
which is better and probably always will be. The key in the whole
issue is to know what would be a fair comparison between the
two. Ex 24 fixed bit internal processing's equilavent in floating point would be 32 bit.....therefore if you were to run across
a plug in ..lets say thats internal processing is being done
at the 48 bit fixed..this would double the precision of a 32 floating
point program. Where the real difference in sound is coming from
are the programs are taking the process a step further by applying dither to the process rather than truncating the extra
bits that are being added by whatever processes you iniated.
If this final step is being done be it at "fixed point" or floating
point the benefits will be the same. More of an analog sounding
sweetening :)

I found this out in a sort of backdoor type of way. I was trying
to find out what the differernce was between Pro Tools and all of the rest, specificly on the PC platform. Everyone just saying it was
because of the Mac and thats it..End of subject..What I came to findout was that the processing in Pro Tools TDM is being done
at 48 bit fixed point. Well now you see, this explains everything.
I mean anything operating at the double the precision has to
sound better right? I think so! At the time most everything in the
PC world had to operate at the 32 floating point or 24 fixed as far
as effects processing is concerned. And Im talking standard Windows and not NT. I,m not real familiar with the differences
in OS,s and such but I found out enough to come up with logical
conclusions. I dont have to mention in order to make a comparison to 48 bit fixed in the floating point archetecture you
would have to look at 64 bit floating point.

What I intended to do was make it clear that are the two archetectures and Im talking internal processing in regards
to effects because the cut copy and paste edits dont require
this...and how to make a fair comparison..of course we all
know that ultimately the PC will able to achieve this next level
precision in its standard OS..the guys in the know can help us on the OS changes upcoming...for instance..this Windows XP..not sure but it sounds pretty promising...

Ed, I am not arguing your point , just wanted make sure that a fair comparison is being made whenever the situation arises when
others have to make a judgement...
 
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