Distortion Guitar Layering / Compression

P

Psyko

New member
Hi!

Yesterday I've recorded guitars for some kind metal-progressive band.
We've recorded 10 layers with Mesa/Boogie Mark IV.

I adjust different sound per every two layers.

When I listen all tracks together it sounds pretty good but I still missing this "punch". Seems to me there is something missing. Maybe compressor ?

I never compress Hi-Gain guitars before, because they'r have enaugh compression by themselves.
Any sugestions what to do ?
Do I use fast attack time to add punch?
And if I compress them, do I add compressor on each track separately or all tracks together?

Thanks for help!

Martin
 
Psyko said:
Hi!

Yesterday I've recorded guitars for some kind metal-progressive band.
We've recorded 10 layers with Mesa/Boogie Mark IV.

I adjust different sound per every two layers.

When I listen all tracks together it sounds pretty good but I still missing this "punch". Seems to me there is something missing. Maybe compressor ?

I never compress Hi-Gain guitars before, because they'r have enaugh compression by themselves.
Any sugestions what to do ?
Do I use fast attack time to add punch?
And if I compress them, do I add compressor on each track separately or all tracks together?

Thanks for help!

Martin
Click to expand...

I always mix my guitars to sound good, one track at a time. And 10 might be a bit much. If you can't get a good sound out of 2 of them, there might be some eq problems. I don't compress my guitar tracks, I just eq some of the high end out, if I record them a bit too bright. ( I do this quite often. My mistake.). They end up sounding brighter in the mix. If you can't make the guitar sound good on its own, then fix that first.
 
Not sure what your definition of "punch" is in this context, but if you're referring to something like a sharp attack when hitting a power chord or something like that, that's half guitar technique and half tryng to line up the layers to precisely hit their initial transients simultaneously. You could also trya litttle gate at the beginning to make the guitars "jump out", but I'd try that as a last resort as it can sound real artificial.

If, however you're talking about the overall sound in general, if you miked through an amp, the amp itself is already compressing the signal quite a bit. You might also be able to beef up the overall sound a little by a *little* EQ boost to the mix somewhere around the 250-400Hz range.

But again I think it's probably more playing technique than anything else that holds back "punch" in such instances (if we're talking about the same "punch".)

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Not sure what your definition of "punch" is in this context, but if you're referring to something like a sharp attack when hitting a power chord or something like that, that's half guitar technique and half tryng to line up the layers to precisely hit their initial transients simultaneously. You could also trya litttle gate at the beginning to make the guitars "jump out", but I'd try that as a last resort as it can sound real artificial.

If, however you're talking about the overall sound in general, if you miked through an amp, the amp itself is already compressing the signal quite a bit. You might also be able to beef up the overall sound a little by a *little* EQ boost to the mix somewhere around the 250-400Hz range.

But again I think it's probably more playing technique than anything else that holds back "punch" in such instances (if we're talking about the same "punch".)

G.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to stray away from the topic, but I wanted to add something. I notice that while I am playing, I feel a "punch" when I play power chords at certain areas of the fretboard. For example I will play a g maj power chord and feel the punch, but when I move up to a c major power chord, I can't feel anything but a light distorted riff, even while palm muted.

Does that ring true for you guys as well? Or is it my guitar or guitar technique?
 
If certain notes or chords are "popping out" it's probably because the note's fundemental frequency is near the center of the bass EQ on the amp. I actually consider that to be a problem.

IMHO run a compression pedal *before* hitting the amp to smooth that out.
 
I've tried gate but it didn't do any good...

Do everyone had use a compressor on distortion guitars?
 
Psyko said:
I've tried gate but it didn't do any good...

Do everyone had use a compressor on distortion guitars?
Click to expand...

Well yes but, there are just too many possible variables to try to advise you how to use your compressor.
What if you tried to record a hendrix cover using a Crate practice amp, and a Danelectro reverb....

There really would be no point in compressing that.

The distorted guitar game is no joke man.
It takes the years, AND the gear to get sounds that will be comparable to what youre hearing in your head.

Just keep working at it.
 
If I can mention something a little different...

You can get alot more "punch" by recording the guitars with less gain.
Espescially if you are going to layer it that much.
 
Psyko said:
I've tried gate but it didn't do any good...

Do everyone had use a compressor on distortion guitars?
Click to expand...

not really. i only really ever use compression on sounds that are quite uneven in volume, just to even things out.

for those that have heard any of my own tunes, you'll think i'm a bit of hypocrite for sayin this as i dont really use a bass guitar in my songs. BUT, when i have, it kinda just seems to hold the rhythm guitars together and really pump them out, especially when the notes of the bass guitar follow the chords of the rhythm guitars.

best example i could think of was when i was trying to simulate the guitars on 'Mayonnaise' by the Smashing Pumkins when i was new to this. i just piled very overdriven guitar after overdriven guitar ontop of eachother. you know what? it didnt work. it just sounded muddy and horrible. i eventually managed to get close with just 3 rhythm guitars and a bass. madly enough, i turned the gain DOWN a bit, but just used two different distortion effects on my effects unit:
- guitar 1: moderate gain, panned left.power chords
- guitar 2: moderate gain, panned right, but with a different type of distortion. open position and barre chords. i also tried a slight delay to lag it behind guitar 1 very very slightly.
- guitar 3: high gain, slightly right panned, arpeggios, same distortion as guitar 1.
- bass: notes of bass guitar followed the chords

maybe it'll work for you, but i've kinda realised from tips on this board as well as experimenting myself that the old 'less is more' saying is actually true. also, less guitars+less gain+less effects = less complication

cheers
 
"PUNCH"....

Holy crap that could mean a million diffrent things to a million diffrent people..

You are going to have to give a little bit more detail as to what your looking for.....

To me punch means attack....

This is handled by a hefty amount of mid...

and a kick that hits hard.....
 
metalhead28 said:
If I can mention something a little different...

You can get alot more "punch" by recording the guitars with less gain.
Espescially if you are going to layer it that much.
Click to expand...

This is it right here^. If the amp sounds more like "fizz/fuzz" than "crunch," you are going to have problems with this many guitar tracks. I prefer the sound of crunchy guitars through something like an 1176, to the sound of over-the-top distortion with no extra compression. You really have to rearrange your mental picture of what a good heavy tone is when recording. It should probably have less gain, less bass, and more mids than you would dial in when jamming solo. Mic placement is also a HUGE issue, especially with a SM57. You can't really get away with picking a random spot somewhere in front of the speaker. And even the mic preamp can effect how much punch you can pull from the microphone.
 
right on Metalhead28!!!

you're basically compressing the signal to the point of immobility by having a huge amount of gain. ten guitars probably dull the attack unless you're aligning them perfectly or steve vai's robotwin is playing with a guitar made of platinum unicorn polymer.

chill on the gain and number of guitars i say but i haven't heard so at least i got to type unicorn again today.

preamp has much to do as does mic placement and potentiall compression settings.. i just think clearing out some guitars and reducing gain will give you a better picture.
 
Thanks, fellas :D

Turning that gain down can make the difference between the guitars just sort of howling, or really BARKing at you out of the speakers!
I want BARK! :D
 
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