Diret Monitoring and Latency

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flextone

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I use an RME Fireface400 and cubase. The FF400 is an excellent interface that should give me nearly zero latency right? the problem is that when i turn off direct monitoring so i can hear my hardware through vst FX, i get terrible latency, now, i am aware that with direct monitoring turned off there will always be more latency, but this is just too much. I can't play an instrument with so much lag. I posted a question on the RME forum and they just said that i can't expect less latency without direct monitoring, but i probably didn't stress just how much latency i am getting. Hell i even remember playing a guitar through guitar-rig on a pc with a soundblaster and asio4all with reasonable latency.

What am i doing wrong?
 
I use an RME Fireface400 and cubase. The FF400 is an excellent interface that should give me nearly zero latency right? the problem is that when i turn off direct monitoring so i can hear my hardware through vst FX, i get terrible latency, now, i am aware that with direct monitoring turned off there will always be more latency, but this is just too much. I can't play an instrument with so much lag. I posted a question on the RME forum and they just said that i can't expect less latency without direct monitoring, but i probably didn't stress just how much latency i am getting. Hell i even remember playing a guitar through guitar-rig on a pc with a soundblaster and asio4all with reasonable latency.

Use a lower buffer size.
 
is that all? Buffer size is 128 at the moment, with cubase showing 3.92 seconds of input latency and 5.07 seconds output latency.

Reasonable?
 
First off, which driver are you using in cubase? Make sure that it is the ASIO (not MME/WDM). The interface's latency is minor compared to the latency introduced by the computer so if you are running one track at the lowest possible buffer and it is still unusable, that is that. Direct monitor the dry signal to record, then add effects later.
 
I don't have your exact hardware/software combination, so my experience may not be exactly the same as yours. But, here's what I've learned. Sampling rate and bit depth have a profound effect on latency. The higher the sampling rate and bit depth, the higher the latency. 16bit/44.1 recording has the lowest latency. In my experience, using any bit depth/sampling rate higher than 16/44.1 results in way too much latency, for my tastes.

I have learned that I need to apply latency settings to both my hardware, and my software. There are separate settings in both, so I have to set both. I usually set the hardware setting before starting the software. Then apply the setting in the software. YMMV
 
is that all? Buffer size is 128 at the moment, with cubase showing 3.92 seconds of input latency and 5.07 seconds output latency.

Reasonable?

At 128. it should be single-digit or low double-digit milliseconds, so no. Something's definitely very wrong. No idea.
 
i meant milliseconds!!! sorry.

still, when i play my mpc through vst fx it's just totally unplayable.
 
Run the Centrance Latency Test utility

Even Yngwie speed guitar players dont usually complain if the *ACTUAL* round trip latency is under 10 msec, many won't complain even if its a bit higher.

Your RME should get results something like

32 buffers: 3.61 msec
64 buffers: 5.06 msec
128 buffers: 7.96 msec
256 buffers: 13.76 msec

Once you start getting under 256 buffers, converter latency begins to play a part. The higher the sample rate, the lower the converter latency, but as shown above, the actual latency may rise because of higher demands on the computer.

Also, be aware that you may be using latent fx, in fact Im betting on it.
 
pipelineaudio,

The latrency i feel with direct monitoring turned off doesn't allow me to play any instrument through the fx, it feels more like 30-40ms even though the "round trip" latency as you say shows 8-9ms. further more, i suspected myself this could be because of a heavy cpu laod effect, but this happens with te simplest stuff, like the cubase bitcrusher.

should i try to go below 128 buffer size?
 
You can go lower if you want, but in this case there is a bigger problem somewhere.

I hate to repeat the oft told rule of thumb about 1 msec latency being like a foot from your guitar amp, but at 8-9 msec, your not even halfway as far from your cab as a regular guitar cable will get you. For the latency to be bothering you this much ,there must be more latency going on than the LTU suggests.

What happens if you bypass all the fx and play?
 
I'll try and let you know pipelineaudio, plus, i'll try to loopback record and take a look at the timing difference.
 
Problem gone! i don't know how, but latency is back to normal, guess ishould have double checked before posting.

Sorry and thanks for the info!
 
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