Direct Recording Question

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Kolinize

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I have spent many many hours trying to get a decent guitar sound from various setups. I have got some decent results, but am still not super pleased.

Presently I have an Ibanez Prestige going into a Toneport UX2. I have played with Amplitube, GuitarRig, and Pod Farm. All of the sounds I get are thin or overmodulated. I am looking for a thick, semi effected crunch sound.

I like the sound I get out of my Line6 Spider amp on the 'insane' setting. If I try and go direct out of the headphone jack to the Toneport and record in Cubase, the sound becomes very thin and processed. I am using the cleanest input settings I can find.

Why can't I get anything like the original sound with this arrangement?

Thanks in advance!

Kolin
 
Yes, I have. The Spider is solid state, so it doesn't sound that great miked, which is a common issue with solid states from my understanding. I have a Blackstar60 which sounds ok if I mic it up, but still not quite the crunch I am looking for. I would love it if I could get the sound I want with a clean input and then process with and amp simulator. That would be ideal because I could tweak the sound after recording. It's just that nothing sounds nearly as crisp and punchy as that Line6 insane sound.
 
If you like the sound of the amp, then you should be able to mic it. What mic are you using? Where are you putting it?
 
Kolinize said:
I have spent many many hours trying to get a decent guitar sound from various setups. I have got some decent results, but am still not super pleased.

Presently I have an Ibanez Prestige going into a Toneport UX2. I have played with Amplitube, GuitarRig, and Pod Farm. All of the sounds I get are thin or overmodulated. I am looking for a thick, semi effected crunch sound.

I like the sound I get out of my Line6 Spider amp on the 'insane' setting. If I try and go direct out of the headphone jack to the Toneport and record in Cubase, the sound becomes very thin and processed. I am using the cleanest input settings I can find.

Why can't I get anything like the original sound with this arrangement?

Thanks in advance!

Kolin
Click to expand...

Direct out of the headphone jack on the Toneport will not include the resonance of the speaker or its HF filtering effect. I don't know if the TP headphone out is "emulated" but it would not seem so*.

Then, what sort of volume level is the amp at when it sounds "nice"? Louder sounds are always beefier (and a wee bit toppier) . Playback through "hi-fi" monitors or headphones at a lower level WILL sound thinner and weaker, this has been the "Rock Guitarists Problem" ever since amps got bigger than about 2 watts!

*The HT-60 has an emulated output. You could try feeding the headphone output of the Toneport into the 60 then coming out of its EM out. If you unplug the speaker you can safely use the amp as a just a "pre amp". You might also find the technique of re-amping useful?

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Direct out of the headphone jack on the Toneport will not include the resonance of the speaker or its HF filtering effect. I don't know if the TP headphone out is "emulated" but it would not seem so*.

Then, what sort of volume level is the amp at when it sounds "nice"? Louder sounds are always beefier (and a wee bit toppier) . Playback through "hi-fi" monitors or headphones at a lower level WILL sound thinner and weaker, this has been the "Rock Guitarists Problem" ever since amps got bigger than about 2 watts!

*The HT-60 has an emulated output. You could try feeding the headphone output of the Toneport into the 60 then coming out of its EM out. If you unplug the speaker you can safely use the amp as a just a "pre amp". You might also find the technique of re-amping useful?

Dave.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the extensive response. I really appreciate people taking the time to respond. I will experiment with some of the proposed possibilities.

My central question is still confounding me though. That is, when I have headphones plugged into the headphone jack on the Spider I get great sound, when I run that headphone out directly to the Toneport and plug the headphones into the toneport, (running the sound through Cubase), the sound is radically less dynamic. Why is the monitored or recorded sound so much different than the input sound?

Thanks,

Colin
 
I have some decent mics, but I have not worked on that workflow much lately. I have volume limitation in my recording space. This question was more of an inquiry into the fundamentals, namely, why is the sound that is being input being so degraded by the processing? I have tried taking Cubase out of the loop an monitoring through the Line6 software and it made no difference. Does the Toneport suck? What else could I be doing wrong?
 
You normally can't go from a headphone output to an input. A headphone out is not a direct line out. Stop doing it that way. If you wanna go direct sans mics, you need to use an amp with an emulated speaker output, a dedicated line out into a speaker cab sim, or plug the guitar direct and use a software simulator.
 
Greg_L said:
You normally can't go from a headphone output to an input. A headphone out is not a direct line out. Stop doing it that way. If you wanna go direct sans mics, you need to use an amp with an emulated speaker output, a dedicated line out into a speaker cab sim, or plug the guitar direct and use a software simulator.
Click to expand...

Yes, I was aware of this issue in general. I know it has to do with impedance issues but I am obviously and idiot in regards to a fuller technical understanding. Thanks for your patience. I had just hoped that if I kept the levels low on the output that I would not exceed the range on the input signal. The meters on the Toneport are not pinned. I have spent some time online trying to figure out what the difference is between a headphone and direct out (which my amp doesnt have), but have yet to find a clear answer. I will do some more experimenting.

Thanks for your input.
 
Kolinize said:
Yes, I was aware of this issue in general. I know it has to do with impedance issues but I am obviously and idiot in regards to a fuller technical understanding. Thanks for your patience. I had just hoped that if I kept the levels low on the output that I would not exceed the range on the input signal. The meters on the Toneport are not pinned. I have spent some time online trying to figure out what the difference is between a headphone and direct out (which my amp doesnt have), but have yet to find a clear answer. I will do some more experimenting.

Thanks for your input.
Click to expand...

Whilst it is always wise to be wary of signal levels there is no harm in feeding a headphone output into the input of the HT-60.
Headphone outs rarely exceed a volt or so rms (which would produce about 100dBSPL in most cans) and you can easily get that from a well thrashed humbucker.

The worst effect would probably be excessive noise.

Dave.
 
Kolinize said:
I have some decent mics, but I have not worked on that workflow much lately. I have volume limitation in my recording space. This question was more of an inquiry into the fundamentals, namely, why is the sound that is being input being so degraded by the processing? I have tried taking Cubase out of the loop an monitoring through the Line6 software and it made no difference. Does the Toneport suck? What else could I be doing wrong?
Click to expand...

The Spider headphone output is ALSO a DI output - if what you hear from it with headphones does not match what is getting recording using the Toneport, then the Toneport is the problem - or how the signal from it is getting routed into your DAW. Make sure you have the Toneport mixer set up correctly.
Also, if you have tried recording the Spider with a mic, like the sound you hear, but not the sound you record, you need to work with mic placement and settings more. Generally, when recording electric guitar, less distortion is better.
 
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