Dilemma: Which mic should I get?

  • Thread starter Thread starter YuvalAS
  • Start date Start date
Y

YuvalAS

New member
Hey,
I've already updated my old post regarding choosing a mic for especially an acoustic guitar, but it feels like old threads are not always read after updates.. So I'm submitting a new thread.
Here is the old thread: https://homerecording.com/bbs/equip...hoosing-mic-acoustic-guitar-recording-323544/
I'm going to divide this message into titles so it'll be easy to understand all the progress of my considerations..

Background
I'm a hobbyist, who really cares about quality. Music is my life, even though I'm not the most talented person (of course..) in this business..
However, since music really affects my life, that's why I'm so obsessed about gettin the best when talking about music.
As well as I'm just an hobbyist, I'm also only 16 years old, therefore I'm kinda limited with budget.. And if that's not enough, then I live outside the US so i'm paying a lot of taxes and high shipment costs, so purchases doesn't end with the item's price...
I know that in my last thread I said that I'm now out of budget so I'm gonna wait the mic purchase. But things has been changed a bit.. I've just received my eBay bucks certificate, with $45 to spend within 3 days.. So I decided to devote this amount of money for a new mic.. :)

Musical Preferences
As I said in my previous, I mostly like acoustic recordings.
If to come to details, then I like the musics that's done by Boyce Avenue, and Tyler Ward (I like their covers more than the originals..)

Current Gear
Audio interface: M-Audio Fast Track Pro
Mic: MXL 990
Accessories: Nady pop filter, Monster S-10 XLR cable, Livewire 1/8" instruments cable, QuikLok mic stand w/ boom, Sennheiser HD202 headphones, Musician's Gear desk mic stand, and so on...

Instruments:
Classical guitar: Admira Malaga
Electric guitar: Fender Squier Stratorcaster
Acoustic guitar: Takamine EG-340SC with Elixir Medium Polyweb strings


Instruments On The Way [long overseas shipment...]:
MIDI Keyboard: M-Audio Keystation 61
Cajon: Meinl's Headliner small cajon
Shakers: Rhythm Tech Studio (both 5&9 inches long), Rhythm Tech Live
Tambourine: Rhythm Tech Tambourine with Brass Jingles

What Am I Looking For?
I'm looking for a mic. I don't wanna start defining it as a dynamic, SDC, LDC or who the hell knows since I finally see that things are not as they are written, but as they are sounded.
It'll be used for anything my MXL 990 can't handle.
Mainly for my new Takamine acoustic electric guitar.
Then to the following: cajon, shakers, tamourine.

What Options Have I Already Been Offered?
Here is a list that I have provided in the previous thread:

• Shure: SM81, SM137, PG81
• MXL: V67N [advantage: interchangeable capsules-omni/cardioid],
603 [disadvantage: has the same capsule as my MXL 990 so similar sound is expected],
604 [advantage: interchangeable capsules-omni/cardioid; disadvantage: has the same capsule as my MXL 990 so similar sound is expected], 991,
993 [advantage: interchangeable capsules-omni/cardioid]
• Earthworks Audio: M-series (especially M-30)
• Blue: Kiwi, Blueberry, Dragonfly, Baby bottle
• Audio Technica: AT2021
• Samson: CO2-pair [was recommended to me in this thread]
• CAD: CM-217-pair [was recommended to me in my previous thread]
• M-Audio: Pulsar II

Map:
Out of budget May be able to afford only an used one Was offered to me

And then I've been offered the mics that have been used by Boyce Avenue in their videos, which are:
  • Shure Beta 56A
  • Shure PG81
  • AKG C 451 B [out of budget]
  • Shure SM57
  • Shure SM81 [out of budget]

* when I say out of budget, I mean that even an used one is out of budget...

Another mic that I found in the last half year, and sounded good for me was the Blue Spark. I can get one for $100.

Btw, do you think I sould get the Behringer ECM-8000 for $35 in additional to the one we will finally decide? I mean, why won't I give it a try at this low cost? Does it worth anything? I heard more than once that Behringer sucks..

I'm definitely believe that finally it will be one of the following: Shure SM57/Shure PG81/Shure Beta 56A/Blue Spark/[maybe Shure SM81 if will find a deal on used]
In additional to your suggestions, please try to say what do you think about a mic between these option..

Recording
From your experience, how should I position the mic relatively to the acoustic guitar?
I mean for the following things: distance from the guitar, angles, in front of what [soundhold, 12th fret - I'm not sure..]

Editing
How can editing help improving the recording sound?
Which effects, what compressions, and how should I proccess my guitar tracks?
I know that it's something that I'm supposed to play with in order to reach the sound I'm looking for. But I need some tips.. :)


Wow, this message is really long. I think it says how much it's important to me.
And I really appreciate all of you for assisting me all the way along the creation of my home studio. It really helps me to wake up in the morning, and start researching for things to add to my studio.. :)

Thanks,
Yuval.
 
Last edited:
Howdy Yuval How have you been?

Take a look at THIS thread with the discussion on the The cascade SDC pair.
I think these just may be right up your alley for what your hoping to accomplish with capturing your acoustic guitar and other acoustic instruments. ;)
 
moresound said:
Howdy Yuval How have you been?

Take a look at THIS thread with the discussion on the The cascade SDC pair.
I think these just may be right up your alley for what your hoping to accomplish with capturing your acoustic guitar and other acoustic instruments. ;)
Click to expand...

Hey,
First let me thank you for your reply!
And about the Cascade M39, I'm not so sure that these will be good for me.
I mean it's a new mic that hasn't been reviewed by other people, and I don't want to be a tester... failures make me sad.. :(
I want to get a mic that has always been there, I mean a mic that other people have tested and most of them were satisfied..
Another thing about this mic is that it look like it shares its specifications with my MXL 990. It looks like they are both MDCs with a 22mm capsule, and the same frequency response so I'm not sure it'll be a good upgrade.
And even the tiny amount of reviews about this mic says that it's crappy: here and here...

I would be happy if you could give me a suggestion for a mic between one of the following:
Shure SM57/Shure PG81/Shure Beta 56A/Blue Spark/[maybe Shure SM81 if will find a deal on used]

Or even something else in budget that belongs to a normal, known manufacturer.. :)

btw since most of the mics on this list are Shure's I contacted Shure to hear what they think..
Here is what I wrote them:
Hello,
First of all, I want you to know that I've always been a dedicated Shure's fan. For its quality, reasonable price, and durability.
And now I need your help.
I've been researching a lot for a while, and guess it will be a good thing to ask for your suggestion.
I'm looking for a mic for recording my acoustic guitar, having in mind capturing the most natural recording. I mean: What You Hear Is What You Get.
The most important thing for me in the new mic is recording an acoustic guitar. I have the Takamine EG-340-SC with Elixir Medium Polyweb strings so it has a really simlar sound that the Taylor 814ce has. Unfortunately unplugged. That's why I'm looking for the most natural mic.

I know you have the Shure Beta 56A, that is basically listed as a kick drum's mic. However, I've been told that it might be good with an acoustic guitar, even though it's marketed as drum's mic.
It has also been used by the band Boyce Avenue in two of their recordings, check it out:
Dynamite: ‪Dynamite - Taio Cruz (Boyce Avenue acoustic/piano cover) on iTunes‬‏ - YouTube
Water Runs Dry: ‪Boyz II Men - Water Runs Dry (Boyce Avenue acoustic cover) on iTunes‬‏ - YouTube

My point is that I want you to tell me if the Shure Beta 56A is doing goods on an acoustic guitar?

And how will the Beta 56A be doing on a cajon, shakers, and a tamourine?

What's your best suggestion in my $100 budget?
Maybe the PG81, or the SM57 is more recommended for my needs?

Thanks in advance,
And waiting for your fast reply, since I've been offered a great deal on several of your mics that expires in 2 days from now..
Yuval.
Click to expand...

And that the response I've received:
Dear Yuval,

the Beta 56 is a dynamic microphone - and very equal to an Beta 57. Generally the Beta 57 is a instrument microphone - especially for snares and e-guitar.

When using with an acoustic guitar is gives you a warm sound.

When you want a more clean, crisp sound I would recommend using an condenser microphone like KSM137, SM81, SM137 - or on a budget PG81

Hope this helps.

Please find here all our recommendations for guitar microphones:
Guitar Microphones: Find the right guitar microphone for you

Best regards
Click to expand...

So what do you think?

I'm waiting for your reply..
Thanks again,
Yuval
 
Well Yuval I have all of those microphones that you mentioned except for the spark. As you collect more microphones as I have you'll notice trends like this ..... my 81's haven't seen the light of day in a while. The 57's on guitar amps have been replaced by Sennheiser 609's. And the 56a's are great on horns in a live setup.

The response from Shure seemed nice and if your budget allows for it I would go for the KSM 137 ;) for I really like mine and they see many diverse applications while recording and live sound support. I m sure that you would be very pleased with this microphone.
 
Hi YuvalAs,
I t sounds like you are taking a serious, reasoned approach to your situation. You have provided a lot of information, which helps us to be able to comment intelligently.

I hear where you are coming from. I am primarily an acoustic guy myself.

I like the SM57 on acoustic instruments. Many others don't, and find it to be lacking in high end detail. To my ear, on my guitar, (Martin D-35) it is very earthy and organic sounding, but doen't always have the "prettiness" of better condensers. But it is usually a better choice than a cheap, brittle sounding condenser.

The SM81 would be my #1 choice for your situation. I like it and use it a lot. On any acoustic instrument, if your source sounds good it will deliver the goods. It is good on acoustic guitar, percussion and drums, and even does a decent job on vocals with a pop filter and care in placement. If you are lucky enough to score a used one in your range I think you would be happy with it. As for the SM137 Moresound suggested, I have never used it. But given the track record of Shure's very solid line of products, and Moresound's experience with a wide variety of mics, it is probably a solid choice as well. Shure mics are almost always a safe buy.

The blue baby bottle can be great on many things, but it can be hit or miss depending on the source. so I would consider this one a risky buy as your "go-to" mic, especially considering the price.

While Behringer products do have a spotty reputation, the ecm8000's are one of their winners. Do a search on this board and see what others have to say about them. Generally, they deliver an accurate, pleasing sound on acoustic guitar, and way outperform their pricepoint. As omnis, they are also very tolerant of mic placement, but will pick up undesirable artifacts of your room if your room has issues. The main complaint people have about these is the noise floor. This may or may not be a problem depending on your set-up.

I would stay away from of the crop of cheap chinese condensers. You are right in assuming most of them will sound similar to your MXL 990.

As far as mic placement goes, some of the positions that work for me are: 5-12" in front of the 12th fret, 6" in front of the middle of the neck angled toward the soundhole, and for rythym guitar parts 12-18" directly in front of the body of the instrument. Also, experiment with angling the mic and using it off-axis to tailor the sound.

As for processing, I prefer not to use compression on acoustics. I prefer to let them breath a little instead of clamping down on the sound. But this is not a hard and fast rule, each track has different needs. Some EQ however can be your friend. Just don't over do it. First through experiments with mic placement get as close to the finished sound that you want as possible. On my guitar, I usually need to gently roll off everything below 80Hz, and then cut a little more in the 200-400 range. But this will vary with the instrument. Try to zero in on your problem resonant or boomy frequencies with a parametric EQ, and then take them down until the guitar starts sounding too thin. Then bring it back up a hair. I try not to add any highs unless absolutely nessesary. With the clarity of digital recording things can get brittle sounding in a hurry.

Hope some of this helps. Good luck!
 
moresound said:
Well Yuval I have all of those microphones that you mentioned except for the spark. As you collect more microphones as I have you'll notice trends like this ..... my 81's haven't seen the light of day in a while. The 57's on guitar amps have been replaced by Sennheiser 609's. And the 56a's are great on horns in a live setup.

The response from Shure seemed nice and if your budget allows for it I would go for the KSM 137 ;) for I really like mine and they see many diverse applications while recording and live sound support. I m sure that you would be very pleased with this microphone.
Click to expand...

OK. I made a lot of research (that's why my response is so delayed btw..) and found the following points:
  • Someone who owns a studio has told me that the PG81 is a toy and it seems to him like the sound sucks majorly due to the noises it produces and, for what he claims, weird sounding mic.
  • The same guy has told me that if I choose to go with a dynamic, such as the SM57, it's highly recommended, even though not many people give it a high priority, to have a really high-quality preamp.
  • The Cascade M39 is basically a chinese-made mic, that is sold by many manufacturers under different labels and names.
  • This guy btw also believe that reviews are prepaid and don't have any meaning, since the writers have been paid for writing them. He also doesn't believe in this kind of forums, he claims it's because there are many pros in these forums, but also many people with a lot of hardwares/gears but no knowledge. I just had to say that.

Since I've been so satisfied in my previous order with Musician's Friend, I thought about giving a shot for getting their advice.

I have bolded the important parts so you don't have to read the whole stuff.. :)

Here is what I wrote to them:
Hello,
First of all, I want you to know that I've always been a dedicated Musician's Friend's fan. All of my musical purchases were done with you, and I'm sure I'll keep on using you as my musical gear providers.
And now I need your help.
I've been researching a lot for a while, and guess it will be a good thing to ask for your suggestion.
I'm looking for a mic for recording my acoustic guitar, having in mind capturing the most natural recording. I mean: What You Hear Is What You Get.
The most important thing for me in the new mic is recording an acoustic guitar. I have the Takamine EG-340-SC with Elixir Medium Polyweb strings so it has a really similar sound that the Taylor 814ce has. Unfortunately it's so good unplugged. That's why I'm looking for the most natural mic.

My findings so far:
Shure SM81, Shure PG81, Shure Beta 56A [I know it's marketed as drum's mic; however I found bands that use it on acoustic guitar and it sounds great], Shure SM57, Blue Spark, Blue Baby Bottle [only an used one is in budget].

My point is that I want you to tell me which one will be doing goods on an acoustic guitar?

And how will the chosen mic be doing on a cajon, shakers, and a tamourine?

What's your best suggestion in my $100 budget?

Thanks in advance,
And waiting for your fast reply...
Yuval.
Click to expand...

And their response:
Thank you for your recent inquiry. For the most accurate reproduction of what you hear, I'd go with a neutral large diaphragm condenser. The blue spark is pretty great for this as it's a very detailed, neutral mic. You also asked about some percussion instruments too and the blue spark will be good for them as well. It's just a really good mic if you need something that will record anything well.

All 3 of the Shure mics you asked about will also give you a good sound most likely but they'll also be coloring the sound, especially the beta 56. It might make a good live mic, but it's not the best for recording if you're trying to capture every nuance of the sound. By the way, have you seen this new feature on Shure's site? It has a bunch of mic demos recording the same sound source so you can get an idea of how they will work for you. Follow this link: Shure Americas | Buyer's Guide | Shure Mic Listening Lab: Audition Shure microphones in this interactive demo.

If you only want to spend $100, I recommend one of the following:

Audio-Technica AT2020 Large Diaphragm Condenser Microphone. This is a pretty good low cost condenser with lots of detail.

Sku #270620000000000 Audio-Technica AT2020 Large Diaphragm Condenser Microphone: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

Audix I-5 Instrument Microphone. This is a good dynamic mic for instruments for recording and live. It will color your sound more than a neutral condenser but still sound really good. It's comparable to a shure SM57 but I think it has a fuller sound.

Sku #270644000000000 Audix I-5 Instrument Microphone: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

I am happy to let you know that this item qualifies for our Gold coverage. I would highly recommend taking advantage of this with your new purchase. For more details regarding how this program will help you, please go here:
What is Gold Coverage?

You may also be interested in the Dunlop Tortex Standard Guitar Picks #110040
Dunlop Tortex Standard Guitar Picks: Shop Accessories & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

If you would like to place an order, please call 800-391-8762 or visit our website at Music Instruments and Professional Audio Equipment | 800-449-9128 | Musician's Friend .

Please feel free to contact us if you have any other questions or concerns, or if you are not completely satisfied with the service you received from us. We appreciate your feedback

We appreciate you choosing Musician's Friend.
Click to expand...

But that guy with the studio has told me that the Blue mics wouldn't be his first choice with an acoustic.
He has recommended the Shure SM81, or the Rode NT5, NT1a, EV Cardinal, Cascade fathead.
He said that he has never heard about the Beta 56A. I guess that because this model isn't sold in Israel.. :0

After looking at Shure's website it seems like they recommend the PG81 for acoustic. Check it out: Shure Americas | Buyer's Guide | Choosing the Right Mic: Narrowing the Field

So I don't know what to do, after every straight step, I'm going two steps back.
Then let's just decide which mic should I get?
Again: for acoustic guitar, cajon, shakers, and tambourine.
The options were: Shure SM57/Shure PG81/Shure Beta 56A/Blue Spark/[maybe Shure SM81 if will find a deal on used]

Thanks again,
Yuval.
 
omtayslick said:
Hi YuvalAs,
I t sounds like you are taking a serious, reasoned approach to your situation. You have provided a lot of information, which helps us to be able to comment intelligently.

I hear where you are coming from. I am primarily an acoustic guy myself.

I like the SM57 on acoustic instruments. Many others don't, and find it to be lacking in high end detail. To my ear, on my guitar, (Martin D-35) it is very earthy and organic sounding, but doen't always have the "prettiness" of better condensers. But it is usually a better choice than a cheap, brittle sounding condenser.

The SM81 would be my #1 choice for your situation. I like it and use it a lot. On any acoustic instrument, if your source sounds good it will deliver the goods. It is good on acoustic guitar, percussion and drums, and even does a decent job on vocals with a pop filter and care in placement. If you are lucky enough to score a used one in your range I think you would be happy with it. As for the SM137 Moresound suggested, I have never used it. But given the track record of Shure's very solid line of products, and Moresound's experience with a wide variety of mics, it is probably a solid choice as well. Shure mics are almost always a safe buy.

The blue baby bottle can be great on many things, but it can be hit or miss depending on the source. so I would consider this one a risky buy as your "go-to" mic, especially considering the price.

While Behringer products do have a spotty reputation, the ecm8000's are one of their winners. Do a search on this board and see what others have to say about them. Generally, they deliver an accurate, pleasing sound on acoustic guitar, and way outperform their pricepoint. As omnis, they are also very tolerant of mic placement, but will pick up undesirable artifacts of your room if your room has issues. The main complaint people have about these is the noise floor. This may or may not be a problem depending on your set-up.

I would stay away from of the crop of cheap chinese condensers. You are right in assuming most of them will sound similar to your MXL 990.

As far as mic placement goes, some of the positions that work for me are: 5-12" in front of the 12th fret, 6" in front of the middle of the neck angled toward the soundhole, and for rythym guitar parts 12-18" directly in front of the body of the instrument. Also, experiment with angling the mic and using it off-axis to tailor the sound.

As for processing, I prefer not to use compression on acoustics. I prefer to let them breath a little instead of clamping down on the sound. But this is not a hard and fast rule, each track has different needs. Some EQ however can be your friend. Just don't over do it. First through experiments with mic placement get as close to the finished sound that you want as possible. On my guitar, I usually need to gently roll off everything below 80Hz, and then cut a little more in the 200-400 range. But this will vary with the instrument. Try to zero in on your problem resonant or boomy frequencies with a parametric EQ, and then take them down until the guitar starts sounding too thin. Then bring it back up a hair. I try not to add any highs unless absolutely nessesary. With the clarity of digital recording things can get brittle sounding in a hurry.

Hope some of this helps. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Hey Tom and thank you for your reply,
I think you got it right. That's exactly my situation.
I can get a SM81 for $150-$200 which is a little bit more than my budget ($100-$150) but I guess worth some efforts.
It's been a classic mic for 30-40 years, so I guess it's not gonna fail with me.
I've just written it in my reply to Moresound that I'm trying not to use these chinese mics anymore...

Do you think that the SM81 will be doing goods on my cajon, shakers, and tambourine as well?

What do you think about the PG81? (It was recommended by Shure for acoustic guitars here: Shure Americas | Buyer's Guide | Choosing the Right Mic: Narrowing the Field)
And what do you think about the Beta 56A (This mic really attracts me somehow :) )

And btw I was talking about the Blue Spark, not the Blue Baby Bottle. The things you've said about the Baby Bottle are the same with the Spark? I mean it was recommended to me for both my percussion instruments, and the guitar. Just curious what you think about the Spark..

Thank you for your time on writing this description-full comment!
Yuval.
 
moresound said:
Did I miss it or are you not interested in the Shure KSM137 Yuval?
Click to expand...

Hey,
I didn't miss it, and I'll never miss any single word that you guys say (or write of course... :) )
The reason for why I haven't kept on talking about it, is because It's $300 which is twice of my budget, and I couldn't find anything used online..
And even if it was in my budget (I'm checking an option of doubling my budget to around the $300 anyway...) It just doesn't provide the sound I'm looking for, based on the audio sample on Shure's website (Shure Americas | Buyer's Guide | Shure Mic Listening Lab: Audition Shure microphones in this interactive demo.)

I'd still be happy to hear your response for my previous message.. :)

Thanks again!
 
I haven't used the PG81, Blue Spark, or the Beta56, so I do not feel qualified to comment on any of them. It would be pure guesswork.

I would say that it makes sense to buy proven tools that have been in use in professional studios for years. The Shure SM57 and SM81 both fit that criteria. I have been through a whole bunch of cheap "flavor of the week" mics, but keep coming back to these proven mics.

A lot of people say that the SM57 is no good for acoustic guitar, but have a listen to this recording of a classical done with a single SM57. However, it should be noted that he is using a very expensive preamp.

‪La Ardila (Alegrias)‬‏ - YouTube

No doubt the 81 is better for most people because it reacts better to low end preamps. But the 57 is no slouch.

There have been a lot of very positive comments about the Blue Spark by people on this board, but I don't know about use with acoustic guitar in particular.
 
omtayslick said:
I haven't used the PG81, Blue Spark, or the Beta56, so I do not feel qualified to comment on any of them. It would be pure guesswork.

I would say that it makes sense to buy proven tools that have been in use in professional studios for years. The Shure SM57 and SM81 both fit that criteria. I have been through a whole bunch of cheap "flavor of the week" mics, but keep coming back to these proven mics.

A lot of people say that the SM57 is no good for acoustic guitar, but have a listen to this recording of a classical done with a single SM57. However, it should be noted that he is using a very expensive preamp.

‪La Ardila (Alegrias)‬‏ - YouTube

No doubt the 81 is better for most people because it reacts better to low end preamps. But the 57 is no slouch.

There have been a lot of very positive comments about the Blue Spark by people on this board, but I don't know about use with acoustic guitar in particular.
Click to expand...

So I guess here is my plan, let me know what you think about it:
  • I think I'll give a shot to the SM57 before I buy it by renting for a day, it just $10, so I'll rent it from the morning until this rental place closes - and that way I'll be able to test how it functions in my recording environment, with my AI and its built-in preamps, and of course with my acoustic guitar.
    The reason for why I want to try it is that it's recommended for so many different kinds of uses, including the percussion instruments I've mentioned in my previous message(s)..
    I guess I'll have to wait a little bit with my rental, since I haven't received the cajon I bought yet..
  • If I won't like the SM57, then I'll give a chance for the SM81, which is a real standard in the studios, and have been being here for about 40 years..
    I can get one used for around the $150-$200, which is a little bit higher than my budget, but I'll make some efforts.
    Btw I can't rent it in my country so it'll be a blind purchase..
  • Then finally, not now of course but later, I'll get the Blue Spark due to its attractive price, and it seems like it'll give me a good piece for the money and will serve me for many years.. :) I know, I sound a little bit optimist..

It's important for me to say that I want to keep growing with the recording stuff, so I assume that I won't end up with one or two mics, since I'll always get better in what I do... I hope so anyway..

What do you think about my plan?

Thanks..
 
Great I can't wait to see how this all unfolds for you Yuval.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top