digital piano

  • Thread starter Thread starter M.T.Pilot
  • Start date Start date
M

M.T.Pilot

New member
Hi,

I want to play the piano and be able to record it by means of a PC. Some folks suggested to take a look at digital pianos instead of midi controlers (in combination with the grand) or keyboards.

I think that is a good idea. I know nothing about good/bad brands concerning digital pianos (or keyboards/synths). So how about these three?

*M-Audio ProKeys 88 Stage Piano
(same one, other website)some $500
*Yamaha P70 Digital Pianosome $500
*korg sp200$599

M-audio seems to be the better one. Again, I'm not sure at all. I like it that the m-audio has 3 pedals, just like a real piano.

Does anyone have any suggestion that could help me chose? Or any suggestions other than the two given above (but in the same price-range, please)?
(I would have gone to a music store, if not for the fact that I then need to add the price of a planeticket to the price of the product. So I will have to buy them via internet and will not be able to try them out).

Thanks,

M.T.Pilot
 
Piano is not my first instrument, but I've seen bad reports on the quality of the M-Audio keyboard itself. Not the whole unit, just the keyboard. Words like 'mushy' and terms like 'soft in the middle' are often used to describe it.

But don't take my word for it.


Here's an excerpt from a Sound on Sound magazine review that's almost wholly positive. The guy who wrote the review IS a pianist, so it probably is something you could take more seriously than whatever I might have to say.

________________________________________________________
By Paul Wiffen

Last year, when I reviewed their top-of-the-range Keystation Pro 88 master keyboard, it seemed to me that M-Audio could progress no further from the inexpensive mini-controllers with which they made their name in the controller market. But then I walked onto their booth at NAMM last year to find that they had taken the next logical step, putting some sounds into the silent weighted 88-note keyboard, including, of course, that of a grand piano (the main reason to have an eight-octave keyboard in the first place).

The only problem I have had using weighted wooden keyboards live is finding a piano sound to match the quality of the keyboard. Software instruments like Ivory and The Grand are great, but they take a lot of room and processing power on a computer, and it can take a while to boot them up before they can be accessed.

Enter the Prokeys 88, the most useable stage piano I have ever tried. Its dedicated Grand Piano button at the top right is just the first of many features which make it a most reliable live workhorse. Even if you have your master keyboard well programmed, pressing Program followed by two or three digits on a keypad is too hit-and-miss a procedure when you need a grand piano under your fingers right now. On the Prokeys 88, nothing could be simpler. Hitting the Grand Piano key, which you could find in a coal cellar at midnight, calls up not only the first piano sound on the instrument but also your reverb and chorus settings of choice. And any complicated splits or layers you've set up are automatically overridden, so you don't have any embarrassments when performing.

Not that it is difficult to set up what you want on the Prokeys 88, even if that is two sounds layered in the right hand in different octaves, an acoustic bass doubled with a ride cymbal sample (for that jazz rhythm feel) and another sound ready to go on another layer. One of my own staple live numbers was recorded using piano, acoustic bass and drums, with strings and a Hammond organ overdub. Live, I usually have to go for a reduced arrangement featuring just the piano, but on the Prokeys 88 it took me less than a minute (without the manual) to work out how to produce a reasonable facsimile of the recorded version on my own in a live situation. I split the keyboard at G2, select the acoustic bass and ride cymbal instruments to layer below the split, so that by playing octaves with my left hand, the little finger is playing the bass and my thumb the piano, adjust the balance between the two, then layer piano and strings under my right hand, adjust that balance, increase the reverb a touch and finally have the organ ready to switch to on the other layer for the Jacques Loussier section in the middle of the piece. And even when I don't have time to do this before I start the song, each step can be done on the fly when I need it.

Clearly, to make all this possible, the designers at M-Audio have to have thought hard about the whole business of playing keyboards live. They know that you will always be playing when you are trying to set things up, so you can only spare one hand for half a second. Setting the split point is the only time you need two hands. As you press Split to set this, you simply hit the highest key you want for the lower sound. Whichever instrument was last used is called up automatically, and its button starts flashing for three seconds (M-Audio call this the Edit Mode) during which you can change it by pressing the button for another instrument. If that instrument is a bass (acoustic or electric) you can double it with the jazz ride cymbal.

One of the problems with splits is that it is usually a bit tricky to control the relative levels of each instrument. Often you have to hold down a key (or combination of keys) and use a data-entry knob or slider, so two hands and some thinking time is required. Not on the Prokeys 88. There is a dedicated Split Level slider to adjust the balance of the second sound, the right-hand sound's level being controlled exclusively by the Master Volume slider. Similarly, there is a dedicated slider for the layer sound volume. Choosing the layer sound works in the same way as the split sound. When you hit the Layer button, the previously selected sound is called back up and its button flashes for three seconds, during which time you can select another sound if required.

Unusually, the Prokeys 88 allows you to have the Split and Layer features active at the same time. Layering only applies to the right-hand side of the Split (in the upper register, where you are much more likely to want two sounds combined, like piano and strings or FM piano and warm pad). The only sounds which you can layer to the left-hand side of the Split are one of the two Bass sounds and the Jazz Ride cymbal. This means in total you have four different sounds available simultaneously in this one configuration.

Not that it is difficult to set up what you want on the Prokeys 88, even if that is two sounds layered in the right hand in different octaves, an acoustic bass doubled with a ride cymbal sample (for that jazz rhythm feel) and another sound ready to go on another layer. One of my own staple live numbers was recorded using piano, acoustic bass and drums, with strings and a Hammond organ overdub. Live, I usually have to go for a reduced arrangement featuring just the piano, but on the Prokeys 88 it took me less than a minute (without the manual) to work out how to produce a reasonable facsimile of the recorded version on my own in a live situation. I split the keyboard at G2, select the acoustic bass and ride cymbal instruments to layer below the split, so that by playing octaves with my left hand, the little finger is playing the bass and my thumb the piano, adjust the balance between the two, then layer piano and strings under my right hand, adjust that balance, increase the reverb a touch and finally have the organ ready to switch to on the other layer for the Jacques Loussier section in the middle of the piece. And even when I don't have time to do this before I start the song, each step can be done on the fly when I need it.

I found myself playing the Prokeys 88 for hours and coming up with great Split/Layer combinations when I should have been writing this review. At band rehearsals, the formerly difficult songs which constantly switch backwards and forwards between piano, organ and strings suddenly became a pleasure to play, as I could simply fade between these sounds in layer mode instead of having to switch at the right moment.

So was there anything I wanted to do but couldn't? Well, it would have been nice to be able to assign the chorus to the left of the split for bass and the reverb to the right (because bass is usually best off without it) and control the split and layer balances from foot controllers, for those pieces where you really can't spare a hand for a quarter of a second, but I suspect these are both features that could be added in a software update. However, as no other stage piano I have ever come across has these features, it is unfair to complain that the Prokeys 88 doesn't either.

My only serious complaint is that when using either of the organ sounds, there is absolutely no way to ramp up the chorus speed from slow to fast and back again in that signature way that Leslie speakers do. Even if you use the Chorus switch to change the speed (which requires two hands but can be done using the Sustain pedal), the switch is immediate, so it doesn't have the glorious effect of the spin up or down. One thing you must not do is use the mod wheel, which is often where manufacturers hide the speed switch, as this brings in a standard vibrato, which sounds fairly hideous! So for any serious Hammond playing, I do still need to reach for my laptop with NI B4 or Emagic's EVB3 on it.

However, these are niggles. The features and facilities that the Prokeys 88 offers would cause me to recommend it even if it cost significantly more than rival products. However, it retails at several hundred pounds less than its nearest rivals from more established manufacturers of stage pianos, and, as such, has a price/performance ratio that no-one else can beat at present. At £469 including VAT (and bundling that robust sustain pedal) it is difficult to fault, and should help to encourage a new generation of piano players. I would have nothing but praise for this product even if M Audio had delivered it at a couple of hundred pounds more, but the fact that they have brought it in at under five hundred pounds is really extraordinary.

___________________________________________________________
 
Hey! How's your brother Otto doing?

Where the hell do you live such that you have to take a flight to make it to a music store??????? :eek:
 
fraserhutch said:
Hey! How's your brother Otto doing?
I was going to as after his sister Skye.

But I thought better of it.


.
 
Yamaha keyboards are pretty solid and have a good piano action.
 
Cheers folks, for the replies!

Thanks for the review as well, much appreciated. I wil have to go and look into the keyboard-part of the digital piano (quality-wise).

What Yamaha digital piano's would you recommend?

regards,

M.T.Pilot


(b.t.w. I live on a small caribbean island, and it seems that I might have to add a plane ticket to the price after all. I contacted zzounds and they told me they don't ship out to non-USA territory due to large transportation costs...) :(
 
Their P 90 is a nice basic piano but if you want more sound choices then their S 90 series is very nice. I picked up a S90 ES and it has some of the sweetest piano tones I've heard out of a sampler. The organs and strings are also killer. They both use the same actions and it's the best electric piano action in my opinion.
 
Sweetwater will ship outside of the US; you just have to pay the cost of shipping.
 
TexRoadkill said:
Their P 90 is a nice basic piano but if you want more sound choices then their S 90 series is very nice. I picked up a S90 ES and it has some of the sweetest piano tones I've heard out of a sampler. The organs and strings are also killer. They both use the same actions and it's the best electric piano action in my opinion.
hoela! that one (S90 ES) looks cool, but is expensive! Some $1600 above my budget..
 
BadAE said:
Sweetwater will ship outside of the US; you just have to pay the cost of shipping.
Cheers! I'm going to contact them and see what the additional transportation cost would be, roughly.
 
BadAE said:
Sweetwater will ship outside of the US; you just have to pay the cost of shipping.
hmmm...checked their website, and they are stating that basically, due to manufactory restrictions, they won't sell to outside of USA territory...

I've send them an e-mail to re-check that, though...
 
Keys are my first instrument and the way I've dealt with this was to get a keyboard digital piano with an action I liked for the price I could afford-- the Casio Privia 110 (a decidedly consumer model with built-in speakers and only headphone outs) and to use the piano's speakers to monitor while I record midi. I then use one of several software synths to play the piano sounds back in the mulitrack and/or render to file for mixing. That's worked out pretty well as I found that generally the internal sounds are fairly bad in that price range. This of course works well for recording, but you are stuck with what you have for playing live.
 
checking out the the Casio Privia 110 ! Cheers for the suggestion. (n.b. it is not meant for live playing, other than practising at home. It is also for recording by means of PC)
 
no problem. i made some recordings with the internal privia sounds, which were okay, but "boxy" and they did not take mix compression well. you definitely lose quality running a headphone to rca to 1/4" setup to record the sound like i did. if you can't get a good sample based acoustic piano softsynth (i am using ni akoustic piano), you might try micing the speakers as i was considering doing. the action on the privia is definitely decent (i believe it is graded so it's a little heavier on the bottom and lighter on the top (not 100% on that), but it felt better to me than the m-audio) and i got it at gc for $450.
 
Back
Top