digital -> 1/4" tape -> Digital -> CD???

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cactuseskimo

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I am wanting to incorporate some of the sonic characteristics of Reel to Reel in my recordings.

Would running an entire mix from a computer into a Reel to Reel, and then back to the computer (to be mastered or burnt to CD) produce favourable results in anyone's opinion??
 
IMHO, that would suck big time, adding wow, flutter, and noise to the recording for no benefit. First thing, 1/4" tape sucks in all of its manifestations. Now there's a lot of rich mofo's (no offense Han) who would track to 2" tape at 30" per second, then run it all into a computer for editing and processing, then mix it back down to tape, but that is a whole different ball game. You have been bitten by the gremlin that says if there is tape involved somewhere in the process, it will create "analog warmth". All you will get from what you are proposing is noise, distortion, and mud. There are advantages to analog recording, but there aren't any cheap ways to get them.-Richie
 
Layback is still relatively popular... You've got to have the right deck.

Of course, even if you have a "cheesey" deck, you can always try it. You might like it.

Or, you might like it enough to get a better deck. :D
 
Any reason you're cross-posting this thread on 3 different forums??????????? :rolleyes:
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Any reason you're cross-posting this thread on 3 different forums??????????? :rolleyes:

Yeah, hoepfully to get different people's opinions. Does it bother you?
 
cactuseskimo said:
Yeah, hoepfully to get different people's opinions. Does it bother you?

Cross-posting is to be avoided and is generally considered bad message board etiquette. It does tend to annoy people. Much better to pick the most appropriate forum and just leave one message there for people to respond to.

A couple keys to laying back to tape are that the tape machine must be in good condition and maintained well, and you should use excellent converters going both from the computer and back into it. Otherwise, any benefits of going to tape may be wiped out by poor digital conversions and tape machine problems.
 
Richard Monroe said:
IMHO, that would suck big time, adding wow, flutter, and noise to the recording for no benefit. First thing, 1/4" tape sucks in all of its manifestations. Now there's a lot of rich mofo's (no offense Han) who would track to 2" tape at 30" per second, then run it all into a computer for editing and processing, then mix it back down to tape, but that is a whole different ball game. You have been bitten by the gremlin that says if there is tape involved somewhere in the process, it will create "analog warmth". All you will get from what you are proposing is noise, distortion, and mud. There are advantages to analog recording, but there aren't any cheap ways to get them.-Richie

a 1/4" 2-track will actually give you MORE tape width than a 2" 24-track. You should be able to calculate this using 3rd grade math skills. I got my 1/4" in basically mint condition for about $250. I don't know why you think that "all you will get is...noise, distortion, and mud". Every single recording you've ever heard up until maybe 1995 used 1/4" tape. where are you coming from on this?

side note: (seroius question your post made me think of): did DAT eventually replace 1/4" tape and when?
 
Actually, Falken, what you say would be true *if* a whole bunch of ifs were met. By my third grade math, a 2" 8 tracker allows the same amount of tape per track, as a 1/4" stereo deck. If the preamps in the stereo deck added *no* noise, (impossible), if the stereo deck put back in the frequencies lost in the original AD tracking and conversion by some analog magic (it can't). If the heads were absolutely clean, the capstain drive was perfect, introducing no wow or flutter (not likely, even with a Studer), if no noise was introduced, data lost, or distortion added when the analog signal was converted back to the digital domain (also impossible), then you would get the same thing you had in the first place, except it would now be mixed down to 2 tracks, and theoretically, would now have the alledgedly pleasing effect of tape saturation.
There are real benefits to tracking in analog, and there are real benefits to editing in the digital domain. Given that the media of the time is CD, the finished product has to end in the digital domain, and noise is added and data is lost every time the signal is converted, as well as evey time another step is added to the signal chain. What is the benefit of mixing down to analog? I agree it makes sense, if you have the gear, the expertise, and the money, to track in analog on a high quality open reel. This preserves those pesky low frequencies, and *may* actually add some pleasing, subtle, tape saturation, the elusive "warmth". Yes, I understand that you can try to add that effect by mixing down to analog. You could achieve some of that effect, but doing that requires a truly kickass, well maintained deck that is out of the reach of even many commercial studios, when all of the ancillary costs are considered. In most cases, on a real world expense account, more is lost by the additional AD/DA conversion than is gained by sticking the final mix into the analog domain and back again.
Yes, lots of great recordings were done on 1/4" machines in the day, and by and large, they ended up on a lovely piece of vinyl. Nothing was lost in AD/DA conversion. Many of those great recordings lack that fine sound today, because they have been digitally remastered, which is supposed to be a benefit to the end user. Of course, in the 60's, they stuck these perfectly good mixes onto 1/8" tape, and fed it to us as a cassette.
I will grant you that for those who have the finest analog *and* digital gear, and the expertise to use it, there *may* be some benefit to mixing down to analog. I am aware that there are people, perfectly good engineers, who believe there is. I believe, however, that for most people on sub- $100,000 budgets, that more is lost than is gained. -Richie
 
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