Different reverb settings for vocals and other instruments?

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lppier

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I've read somewhere that putting less reverb on vocals in comparison to the other instruments in the mix pushes it forward, and makes it sound more present.
Yet another site says that doing so makes the mix sound unnatural, with the vocal popping out.
Have been mixing for a while now, but feel that I still haven't really got the reverb/compression thing on vocals in relation to other instruments down yet. (ie get the vocals to sound good and stand out in the mix)

Any tips to offer here?

Thanks.
 
It just depends on the style. Most modern rock/pop has a lot of compression and a touch of delay. Very little reverb. Older or less mainstream music tends towards more reverb and less compression.

Compression and delay is usually a good start for vocals that don't seem to sit well in a mix. The rest is a matter of taste.
 
i guess it's more or less generally accepted that putting more reverb on something will make it sound more distant. think about it - say you're in a somewhat large room, listening to a bunch of people play. the instruments that are up close and in your face will have a very direct sound...you might here some of the room with it, but it won't be as loud in relation to the instrument itself

now think of the guys who are standing 6 or 8' behind the guy in front. with their instruments, you're hearing both what they're playing, combined with the reflections from the surrounding room. think about what it sounds like when you put a huuuuuuuuuge reverb setting, such as a stadium or canyon on something - it makes sound miles away

as far as the vocal reverb against the instruments...that's all going to depend on the genre of the music, along with the tune itself. most modern poppy-ish stuff uses as little reverb as possible, while more traditional styles tend to be a bit more liberal with its use...but again, there are no rules, so take rami's advice, and just tweak it until you think it's right
 
I'd agree that a lot has to do with style. Some music lends itself to vocals that are back further in the mix due to heavy reverb. Some songs have zero reverb on the vocals.

From my experience, the best "trick" is to have one lead vocal track that is completely dry, no effects. Copy the lead vocal track and apply heavy compression and your reverb. Bring up the second effected track to a volume level where you can hear it, but it isn't dominating - usually 4-10 db lower than the dry vocal track. This is a common tactic. You get the reverb without the vocals fading back into the mix.

This assumes you want the vocals up front..
 
my co-partner usually does all the mixing when we record, he has the reverb thing down pact, he say's it's not really one technique he uses, but he does wonders with them, i'm not even sure if he uses any incorperated plug-ins other than the one for his wack ass DAW, lol (Magic Studio's, i 4got the version)
 
There are really no rules on this, but I think more often than not the vocal ambiance is treated seperately from the main reverb buss. I'll typically set up three verbs on a mix; a drum room, a vocal plate, and then a general room verb for most of everything else. That's just a starting point, but it's a template that works on a lot of projects.
 
i try to use "room" verbs and "hall" verbs for snare drums and vocals.

me personally, i like to use a pre delay of about 100-125 ms on the verbs too. It will keep the initial attack of the instrument upfront. and i try to keep it light......about 15-25% wet........and even 25% wet can still be too much, depending on what your trying to sound like. Keeping it under 25% wet will give it a more natural feel, any more than that it will sound washed out and VERY verby........but if thats the sound your going for, than go for it.
 
bkkornaker said:
i try to use "room" verbs and "hall" verbs for snare drums and vocals.

me personally, i like to use a pre delay of about 100-125 ms on the verbs too. It will keep the initial attack of the instrument upfront. and i try to keep it light......about 15-25% wet........and even 25% wet can still be too much, depending on what your trying to sound like. Keeping it under 25% wet will give it a more natural feel, any more than that it will sound washed out and VERY verby........but if thats the sound your going for, than go for it.
Click to expand...

Why not just put the verb on a send? Unless you are chaining it behind another effect????
 
Put another way.. You're building an illusion. Often enough you're setting up depths that weren't there in the tracking, nor will the verb set up that's the nicest space for something smooth like a vocal work on things like percussion. So there's some possible restrictions right off going with that route.
On 'big verb meaning 'far away.. Not necessarily. A track with a big verb with the right predelay can be up close, where smaller short reflections can help set things back.
 
i sometimes do use a send/return buss for my verb.

BUT.......

i dont like to use the same verb on the snare with the vocals.
I usually like a room verb for the snare (with about 120ms pre-delay), and a hall verb for the vocals....and bump up the predelay to maybe 135-160 on the vocals. The longer predelay makes the vocals almost have an "echo" effect before the tail wash rides out.......

the only time ill use a 'verb buss' is when i want the overall song to have a definate sound space......and make the song sound like it was recorded in that sort of room.
 
I don't even like using reverb on vocals, I almost always use Delay.
 
mixsit said:
Put another way.. You're building an illusion. Often enough you're setting up depths that weren't there in the tracking, nor will the verb set up that's the nicest space for something smooth like a vocal work on things like percussion. So there's some possible restrictions right off going with that route.
On 'big verb meaning 'far away.. Not necessarily. A track with a big verb with the right predelay can be up close, where smaller short reflections can help set things back.
Click to expand...

Spot on!

Reverb can make something sound like it is in a huge space, or it can make it sounds like it is coming from a distance in a huge space.

Pre-delay and early reflection levels make a pretty big difference in which way it is going to go.
 
I never use much reverb on hard hitting vocals, ie fast songs of specific genres, but usually pretty songs that are mellow/eerie and need that verb on a vocal..I like the dry vocal sound, compression, sometimes a delay and if the vocal is eq'd correctly sits in the mix nicely, but it all depends on what you hear (what you have to work with) and what you want it to sound like in a particular song. I had one slow jazzy type song by a femal vocalist that I really liked dry, but just couldn't get it to sit in the mix...I hit it with 60% verb...that was too much and kept dropping til' I reached 22% which smoothed it over and it sit perfect with sax and guitar work.
 
Looks like the general consensus is that you can use different reverb values for vocals, and the rest of the tracks, as long as it fits the music style.
Thanks a lot!
 
Here is my tip.... try to position your vocal FIRST with delays... like a quarter note for depth, and then some ultra quick stereo left right for bigness... you'll find things sound more aggressive this way. Sure you can add a bit of short verb, but try to avoid adding big verbs to vox because they always sound old school when this happens. You'd be surprised what you can do with delays.
 
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