Difference between balanced and unbalancedd input?

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amentiz

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What is the difference between balanced and unbalanced inputs and outputs?
 
Yo Pratt:

A really good clear conscise and BEARABLE explanation of the cables.

Amazing what one finds here.

Green Hornet:D :cool:
 
So to put it more easily

a balanced cable cinsists out of 3 wires (like an xlr mic cable) and an unbalance cable out of 2 wires (Guitar jack) ?

or is that too much of a simplification ?
 
OK -- the explanation....

Balancing/unbalancing has less to do with cables and more to do with a way of passing a signal while minimizing noise introduced to the signal as it travels thru the wire.

"Balanced cable" is a misnomer - because it isn't the cable that "balances" a signal. To run balanced signals though, REQUIRES 2-conductor cable, although the mechanism for balancing is at the sending and receiving ends of the gear and not the cable itself.

Single conductor cable - has only two wires, one hot and one shield. 2-conductor cable has three wires, one positive, one negative, one shield.

A cable having TS connectors is a single-conductor, and a cable having TRS connectors is a 2-conductor cable that can be used to run balanced signals, or 2 channels of unbalanced signals (such as for headphones!)

Hope this clears up the confusion....
 
Re: OK -- the explanation....

Blue Bear Sound said:
Balancing/unbalancing has less to do with cables and more to do with a way of passing a signal while minimizing noise introduced to the signal as it travels thru the wire.

"Balanced cable" is a misnomer - because it isn't the cable that "balances" a signal. To run balanced signals though, REQUIRES 2-conductor cable, although the mechanism for balancing is at the sending and receiving ends of the gear and not the cable itself.

Single conductor cable - has only two wires, one hot and one shield. 2-conductor cable has three wires, one positive, one negative, one shield.

A cable having TS connectors is a single-conductor, and a cable having TRS connectors is a 2-conductor cable that can be used to run balanced signals, or 2 channels of unbalanced signals (such as for headphones!)

Hope this clears up the confusion....
Click to expand...

Blue,
if balanced cables reduce noise, why isn't every cable balanced. Why even bother with unbalanced signals?

kt
 
Well - for one thing re-read what I wrote... it ISN'T the cable that reduces noise... it's the start/end connections of the gear that it's attached to!

The reason it isn't universal is because of the increased cost -- many manufacturers of budget gear forego balanced connection costs to hit a price point... as well - manufacturers of prosumer gear assume (probably rightly) that consumers at that level are unlikely to gain a benefit from using balanced connections since it requires an entire signal chain to be balanced for the advantage to be realized. (ie, if you stick unbalanced gear in the middle of a whole chain, the whole chain becomes unbalanced from that point on)...
 
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I see...

So you really gotta know your gear and the chain they're in.

thanks.
 
bruce bear can ya help me out?

My aphex 107 preamps, according to the manual -10 is unbalanced and +4 is balanced,
So say its set to +4 (bal) and im going into digi 001 input(bal)
1. using unbalanced TS cables makes the line unbal, ?
2. say im using TRS cables (pre to sound card) and i put a RNC(unbal) between the the two this makes the line unbal, so there is no need in using TRS cables if the line isnt really balanced from start to finish ?

If thats the case, i would be better off getting a preamp that had a unbalnced insert to input the RNC in so i could use TRS from pres to digi 001.(and keep it balanced at +4)
my unbalanced patch bay is basically useless right now.
:eek:
 
Re: bruce bear can ya help me out?

detuned6 said:
1. using unbalanced TS cables makes the line unbal, ?
Click to expand...
Correct....


detuned6 said:
2. say im using TRS cables (pre to sound card) and i put a RNC(unbal) between the the two this makes the line unbal, so there is no need in using TRS cables if the line isnt really balanced from start to finish ?
Click to expand...
Also correct....!


detuned6 said:
If thats the case, i would be better off getting a preamp that had a unbalnced insert to input the RNC in so i could use TRS from pres to digi 001.(and keep it balanced at +4)
Click to expand...
Theoretically, yes - but if you're not having a noise problem now, then you won't see much difference (except that you're losing about 6dB of signal by using the TS with a balanced signal - because you're chopping-off half the signal), so you'd gain the 6dB back...
 
Hey bluebair, did you ever get that e-mail i sent your? haven't gotten any reply.
 
Sorry Zeke... haven't seen an email from you... I had a couple of email issues this week - maybe yours got bumped...

Send it again... I'll keep an eye out for it...!

(Or hit me up at VoxChat - I'm heading there now... http://www.voxvendor.com/chat.htm )
 
Re: Re: bruce bear can ya help me out?

Blue Bear Sound said:

Theoretically, yes - but if you're not having a noise problem now, then you won't see much difference (except that you're losing about 6dB of signal by using the TS with a balanced signal - because you're chopping-off half the signal), so you'd gain the 6dB back...
Click to expand...

Shit, 6db of gain!, im not having any noise problems. So let me get this clear, if i use a balanced cable (as opposed to the unbalanced im using now) i will get 6 db more of gain going into my digi 001?
I just noticed that the monitor outs of digi , and the 1/4'' inputs on my event PS-8's are also balanced. So looks like im gonna have to go by new cable, shit i got a half a milk crate full of cable since i stop using my patch bay. I spent alot of money on that monster cable:eek:
 
And if you have a 23 Balanced signals going into your 24-channel mixer, and the last one is unbalanced, then the output from the mains are going to be unbalanced?

kt
 
KevinTran said:
And if you have a 23 Balanced signals going into your 24-channel mixer, and the last one is unbalanced, then the output from the mains are going to be unbalanced?

kt
Click to expand...
No... balancing occurs on a single chain.... a 24-channel mixer has 24 "chains" that are independent. You can have one channel running balanced and the one next to it unbalanced. The main outs are yet another separate "chain"...
 
Re: Re: Re: bruce bear can ya help me out?

detuned6 said:
Shit, 6db of gain!, im not having any noise problems. So let me get this clear, if i use a balanced cable (as opposed to the unbalanced im using now) i will get 6 db more of gain going into my digi 001?
Click to expand...
It's not that you get more gain - it's that you restore the gain you lost running a balanced signal via unbalanced cable!

But yes, you should see a 6dB increase in level when reverting back to balanced lines UNLESS the gear at the output end is servo-balanced and recognized that you plugged-in an unbalanced cable and compensated for the loss.

Again - it pays to know the INs and OUTs of all your gear... it generally isn't enough that you know whether to use 1/4" or XLR connections - you need to understand the gain structure, the signal type (bal./unbal.), how the signal is balanced (servo, transformer, etc...), and in some cases what is needed to correctly interface it to unbalanced gear.... all these things are not standard from manufacturer to manufacturer so it's important to understand these things to keep all your gear playing nicely together (and as noise-free as possible!)
 
And don't forget that in some cases (short runs) unbalanced can be better.

SoMm
 
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