DI Box Connections

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RecordingMaster

RecordingMaster

A Sarcastic Statement
Here's the DI box I currently have, until I can invest in a superior one. DI.webp

It's a Yorkville YDI-1P Passive DI Box with a jack to receive signal from the guitar, a jack to send the signal to the guitar amplifier, and an XLR jack to send the signal to the board.

I have two scenarios and I want to know if I am doing this right...

1) When I record a guitar track (standard electric guitar with passive pickups) and wanted a miked track as well as a feed from the DI, I plug the guitar into the "From Instrument" jack, I run a musical instrument patch cable from the "To Amplifier" jack to the guitar amp, I mic the amp, and lastly I run an XLR cable from the "To PA Board" jack on the DI box into an XLR jack on my snake.

In the control room, I take the receiving XLR end of the feed from the DI, add an XLR to 1/4" TRS adapter, and then into a High Z jack on one of my outboard pre-amps (or into my interface with the "guitar" button switch in on that input).

Is this correct, or is the DI box converting the signal into a signal level that should not go into a Hi Z jack? In otherwords, even for passive guitar pickups, should I be plugging the XLR connection into an XLR mic jack on one of pre-amps?

2) When I record an electric guitar or bass that has active pickups, I do all the same as above, except I remove the XLR to 1/4" TRS adapter on the recieving XLR end of the feed from the DI, and plug it into an XLR input on one of my pre's.

I am assuming that this scenario #2 is at least correct?


Last question sort of unrelated but not really...If I want to re-amp a raw guitar DI track back into a real guitar amp, what are the step-by-step connections to use my DI in reverse?
Is this correct?: 1/4" TRS cable from interface output with DAW track level at unity gain, add a 1/4" TRS to XLR adapter, then into the XLR jack on DI. Then a standard instrument cable from the "To amplifier" jack on the DI box into the amp, then re-mic the cab.

Sorry about the long post, I didn't want to leave out any details.

Your help is greatly appreciated as I'm no electrician, nor guitar tech! Thanks!
 
Unless the signal is too hot just connect the XLR output of the DI to the SLR in put of your preamp. If the signal is so strong that it overloads the preamp then use the XLR-TRS adapter. I would think that would be more likely with an active pickup than with a passive.

If the two 1/4" jacks are just wired in parallel it won't matter which one you use for reamping. They probably are parallel but I couldn't find any documentation confirming it. If the To Amplifier doesn't work as an output connect the From Instrument input as an output to your amp.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Unless the signal is too hot just connect the XLR output of the DI to the SLR in put of your preamp. If the signal is so strong that it overloads the preamp then use the XLR-TRS adapter. I would think that would be more likely with an active pickup than with a passive.

If the two 1/4" jacks are just wired in parallel it won't matter which one you use for reamping. They probably are parallel but I couldn't find any documentation confirming it. If the To Amplifier doesn't work as an output connect the From Instrument input as an output to your amp.
Click to expand...

Thanks Boulder! Your first answer...so even with a guitar with passive pickups, I should go from the "To board" XLR jack on DI straight into an XLR as opposed to the Hi Z jack on the pre?

Your second answer...I'm pretty sure they're parallel. Ok I'll try your suggestions, but what about the connection TO the di from my interface's output? The output jacks on my interface are only 1/4" TRS. I thought something needed to bring the DAW signal from line level down to a guitar signal level. Wouldn't that mean I need to go from the interface into the XLR jack in order to convert it down? Then from one of the 1/4" jacks to the amp? I'd try everything, but I don't want to blow anything up, or waste a heap load of time. Might as well do it the correct way.
 
Am i being dumb or is it a reamp/ di combo
because i always thought that a di was to make a guitar signal compatable with the interfaces line in jack.
and a reamp box makes a line level signal from the interface compatable with a guitar amps hi z input.
completely differant things and rarely found in the same box i would have thought
or am i missing something? educate me please.
 
kip4 said:
Am i being dumb or is it a reamp/ di combo
because i always thought that a di was to make a guitar signal compatable with the interfaces line in jack.
and a reamp box makes a line level signal from the interface compatable with a guitar amps hi z input.
completely differant things and rarely found in the same box i would have thought
or am i missing something? educate me please.
Click to expand...

Sounds right to me.

I never heard of someone using a DI box 'backwards' - putting in a linelevel signal, and pulling out a guitar Hi-Z signal!

You can take the line level ouput from your interface to the guitar amp - turn the interface output volume DOWN to 0, then with the amp volume just a bit turned up, turn the line level volume up just a little.
 
Yes, you'd go from the interface's TRS output to the DI's XLR output and from the DI's 1/4" input to the amp. You may need to run your interface output low. It's not perfect but it may sound better than just going from your interface to the amp (which I would try anyway).
 
kip4 said:
Am i being dumb or is it a reamp/ di combo
because i always thought that a di was to make a guitar signal compatable with the interfaces line in jack.
and a reamp box makes a line level signal from the interface compatable with a guitar amps hi z input.
completely differant things and rarely found in the same box i would have thought
or am i missing something? educate me please.
Click to expand...

In a pinch you can use a passive DI backwards to reamp a signal.
 
Guess i should :RTFM:

Yorkville YDI-1P Single Passive Direct Box

this box is differant to the ones i've been lloking for in that it converts the h z guitar signal to match a mic preamp

sorry guys

I tried allsorts with no joy so far boulder
Jimmy reccomended a impedance matching device a while back that i'm gonna try soon but its only available in the USA and postage and tax would cost more than a budget di here (UK)
thanks anyway
sorry if i seem like i'm hijacking your thread recording master it was not intentional i was trying to understand so i could help.
 
I heard a di vs re amp ab on the home recording show with Ryan canestro and I could barely tell any difference but listen for yourself they have a whole episode on re amping. I think buried in a mix you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.
 
Ok so I have the "how to do a re-amp using a DI box (not a re-amp box in reverse" question out of the way.

But as for my first question, I am assuming now that whether using a guitar with active OR passive pickups, they BOTH go into an XLR jack on my pre-amp when coming from the DI box's "To mixer" or "to board" jack (whatever it says), and never the HI Z jack unless plugging a passive guitar DIRECTLY into the interface without a DI box. And if I were plugging in an active guitar direct into a pre-amp, I'd go into the line jack, since active pickups have a line-level signal.

I've been doing MOST of this, but I wanted to make sure I was getting it right. Sometimes doing it another way may not be necessarily wrong (if we're in the school of thought that are are no rules), but certainly, an electrician could probably tell you what way is the correct circuitry for the least amount of noise or conversion issues that affect tone. When I am recording dry DI's, since I'm no guitar tech, I don't notice a HUGE difference trying all the different ways to connect, but I know there is probably something about the "incorrect" ways of doing it that are affecting something in the signal that may not be too audible, but still there. I'm picky and I want it done right...not half-assed. An example of this would be plugging an active bass direct into a Hi Z jack. You may not notice anything on it's own, but it sounds like shit compared to plugging it into a line level input. Reason being, that if you try to go into a Hi Z jack, it'll boost the signal too high and chop off some important info in the highs. I've been to a studio where the engineer didn't even ask my bassist about his pickups and just lazily plugged it straight into a direct Hi Z jack. He has active pickups. I don't want to be "that" engineer.

Anyways, thanks Boulder! I am hoping I have things right. I just want/wanted some reassurance. Thanks for the input too, Pahtcub!
 
kip4 said:
Am i being dumb or is it a reamp/ di combo
because i always thought that a di was to make a guitar signal compatable with the interfaces line in jack.
and a reamp box makes a line level signal from the interface compatable with a guitar amps hi z input.
completely differant things and rarely found in the same box i would have thought
or am i missing something? educate me please.
Click to expand...

No. A passive DI uses a transformer to make your guitar signal compatible with a MIC INPUT on a preamp or mixer. Then you route the output of the pre or mixer to your interface.

A reamp device uses a transformer to make your line-output signal off your interface compatable with the instrument input of an amplifier.

Scroll down to page 11 for an explanation of how to use a passive DI as a reamp device. As some others have pointed out you need to significantly lower the output volume of your interface to avoid overloading the DI.

A male > female XLR adapter is also handy for using a passive DI as a reamp.

http://www.radialeng.com/pdfs/manual-jdi.pdf
 
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It's good to be picky but don't get caught up in some sort of external correctness and lose sight of what actually sounds good. Normally I'd say first try plugging directly into the hi z input since they are supposed to accommodate instruments. But you've found that in at least one case an instrument sounds better in a line input.

That makes some sense. Active pickups (or pickups with active tone circuits) don't generally need the kind of loading that passive pickups do. You like the sound of your active in a line input so that is the "correct" one to use. Use whatever gets you the tone you like without too much noise or distortion.
 
c7sus said:
No. A passive DI uses a transformer to make your guitar signal compatible with a MIC INPUT on a preamp or mixer. Then you route the output of the pre or mixer to your interface.

A reamp device uses a transformer to make your line-output signal off your interface compatable with the instrument input of an amplifier.

Scroll down to page 11 for an explanation of how to use a passive DI as a reamp device. As some others have pointed out you need to significantly lower the output volume of your interface to avoid overloading the DI.

A male > female XLR adapter is also handy for using a passive DI as a reamp.

http://www.radialeng.com/pdfs/manual-jdi.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input! I did read page 11 and it is assuming that you're coming from your "mixer" Low Z XLR jack, which in my case I can only come from my interface's line output (line level signal, not low z). So I think the only way I could hope to make this work is what Boulder confirmed above...go 1/4" TRS out of interface line output > adapter to switch cable to female XLR > XLR female into DI "to mixer" output (using as input) > out of the DI's "instrument input" jack (used as output) with instrument cable > into amp. Can't wait to try...hopefully I don't fry anything! :O

Boulder, I humbly concur to your last comment, thanks again.
 
RecordingMaster said:
you're coming from your "mixer" Low Z XLR jack, which in my case I can only come from my interface's line output (line level signal, not low z).
Click to expand...

Balanced connections are pretty much all low z (where z means impedance) regardless of signal level. Balanced inputs are actually somewhat higher impedance but designed to match a low impedance output. Balanced connection can be done on XLR, TRS or even a terminal block.

Way back in the old days the input and output impedances would be matched for optimum power transfer. But modern gear operates on detecting voltage rather than transferring power so it's standard to have low impedance outputs driving higher impedance inputs.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Balanced connections are pretty much all low z (where z means impedance) regardless of signal level. Balanced inputs are actually somewhat higher impedance but designed to match a low impedance output. Balanced connection can be done on XLR, TRS or even a terminal block.

Way back in the old days the input and output impedances would be matched for optimum power transfer. But modern gear operates on detecting voltage rather than transferring power so it's standard to have low impedance outputs driving higher impedance inputs.
Click to expand...

That's good food for thought. So what's the whole point of a "re-amp" box? I mean people will buy things just to buy into the hype, so maybe they are just a big crock?
 
RecordingMaster said:
That's good food for thought. So what's the whole point of a "re-amp" box? I mean people will buy things just to buy into the hype, so maybe they are just a big crock?
Click to expand...

A reamp box is better designed for going from low impedance balance line level to high impedance unbalanced guitar level than using a passive DI backwards. The input is probably padded down and the transformer is probably a bit different from the one in a DI. It's the right tool for the job.
 
RecordingMaster said:
That's good food for thought. So what's the whole point of a "re-amp" box? I mean people will buy things just to buy into the hype, so maybe they are just a big crock?
Click to expand...
Think about it for a second. A DI box takes a high impedance line or instrument level signal and changes the impedance and level to bring it down to a low impedance mic level signal.

So, going backwards it would be really good at taking a low impedance mic level signal and turning it back into a high impedance line level signal, but that isn't what you are trying to do...

What you are trying to do is take a balanced, high impedance line level signal and turn it into a signal that a guitar amp expects to see, a high impedance instrument level signal. That's what a reamp box is designed for.

Some guitar amps are really sensitive to the impedance you send them and won't sound anything like they are supposed to if you don't send them the type of signal they expect.

The only thing a passive DI box in reverse does well is isolate the interface from the amp to stop ground loops.
 
Makes sense guys.

I tried this on the weekend with sub-par results...

Track signal at Unity gain in PT9 > Interface Line Out > 1/4" TRS snake down to tracking room > 6" long 1/4" TRS cable out of snake > 1/4" TRS to XLR female adapter > DI box XLR output (used as input) > 10' instrument cable from Guitar input (used as output) > into guitar amp.

Results?...Buzz galore. Switched Ground switch on Di...a little better but still unusable (signal/noise ratio too great). Just picked up a new DI with a filter placed out of the audio range for interference and with a few pad switches, a polar switch and a ground switch. Hopefully this will yield better results, but I'm not extraordinarily hopeful. I'm thinking also, the slightly long cable run though the snake wasn't doing it any good. If the new DI box doesn't help and a better/different amp doesn't help, I guess I'll try the other route. Use a stack. Have the amp head in the control room so there's a shorter cable run. Run a speaker cable down to the cab in tracking room (apparently longer speaker cable runs are better than bal/unbal cable runs which makes sense). Only issue is the majority of amps I have (or have access to) are combos. :(

And the third, more costly route is to buy a re-amp box. Which is hard to justify since I'll likely not use it often.
 
There may be a power ground issue between the control room and tracking room. Run an extension cord from the control room to the amp to see if it reduces the buzz.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
There may be a power ground issue between the control room and tracking room. Run an extension cord from the control room to the amp to see if it reduces the buzz.
Click to expand...

This!!!!

Try also turning down the output of interface. remember, the Di box is raising the high impedance line level signal to a higher impedance, higher level signal. Depending on the DI box, you could be raising the signal level by 20 db and the noise with it.
 
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