DI Advice

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noiseordinance

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Hey, I just picked up a new Presonus 22VSL and could use some pointers. I am looking to record vocals with a condenser mic, electric guitar with an active pickup, and bass with a passive pickup. I was thinking about the following path for all three: Presonus TubePre > Presonus 22VSL > computer. I realize I'd be feeding a line level (Tubepre) into the instrument level input of the 22VSL, and would have to watch out for clipping.

So I'm curious if I should consider a DI to put between the TubePre and the 22VSL, or if it would make much of a difference at all. Should I even be running these various instruments into a tube preamp? I know this is probably just a matter of opinion. For vocals, in particular, the TubePre and the 22VSL both have phantom power, so maybe I'm putting an unnecessary step between the mic and the audio interface. Sigh... any advice would be appreciated.
 
To start with just turn on one phantom power at a time and no other ones in your recording line - no matter what!
 
Others may disagree, but I'm not sure you're going to get any benefit on putting vocals or electric guitar through your tube pre. Presumably you're going to use amp modelling for at least your electric... so putting "tube warmth" into the signal ain't gonna do much. So I'd personally put both the guitar and vocal mic straight into the interface... avoids the clipping issue.

You could try the vocals into the tube pre into the interface but clipping aside, let's face it, your tube pre is an inexpensive device, so I wouldn't hold out much hope for radical improvement.

I'd put the bass into the tube pre via the instrument in and see how it goes, level wise, before deciding you need to buy anything else - I can see that your tube pre might be useful on a bass. I do something similar myself via a tube channel strip and like the results.

This is all theoretical on my part, I own none of this gear. Wait and see what other people here recommend.
 
Armistice said:
Others may disagree, but I'm not sure you're going to get any benefit on putting vocals or electric guitar through your tube pre. Presumably you're going to use amp modelling for at least your electric... so putting "tube warmth" into the signal ain't gonna do much. So I'd personally put both the guitar and vocal mic straight into the interface... avoids the clipping issue.

You could try the vocals into the tube pre into the interface but clipping aside, let's face it, your tube pre is an inexpensive device, so I wouldn't hold out much hope for radical improvement.

I'd put the bass into the tube pre via the instrument in and see how it goes, level wise, before deciding you need to buy anything else - I can see that your tube pre might be useful on a bass. I do something similar myself via a tube channel strip and like the results.

This is all theoretical on my part, I own none of this gear. Wait and see what other people here recommend.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the great advice Armistice. You are right, I normally use amp modeling (Amplitube in particular). I've made some pretty good sounding recordings but there's always room for improvement! :)

I will try as you suggested: vocals and guitar straight into the interface, bass through tubepre first (I can definitely say I've been able to get some fat thick bass sound with this config). You had mentioned trying bass through tubepre straight into the interface. Should I try this with the guitar with active pups? As an aside, someone on this forum suggested I get an interface with both instrument level input and line level, but I stuck with the Presonus because of good reviews. Maybe shooting myself in the foot here. So, would I benefit at all by putting a DI in for the instruments? If I was only looking to buy a cheap DI ($100 or less), would it be a waste of time?

Thanks again! And I definitely understand that I can't expect a whole ton from cheap gear. Just trying to make the best of it! :)

Edit: Here's the tone I'm getting from my current configuration: https://soundcloud.com/seanandthegatos/the-cruelest-dance One of the problems I've had is making it loud. (I know, don't kill me, I'm familiar with the loudness war!) But I figured I'd get advice as maybe I could improve my signal to noise ratio and get a little more volume and better tone out of my recordings.
 
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Also, just to clarify, I'm not mic'ing amps in any way. Going direct in for guitar and bass.
 
So I'll just assume that there isn't any noticeable gain by inserting a DI between active pickups or a tube preamp and an instrument-level audio interface. Sound about right?
 
I don't own any of these either. Also, this depends on what you consider a "direct interface/box" That can mean dropping a line level to a mic level (which you seem to be suggesting) or matching the impedance of e.g. a guitar pickup with a microphone input. For the former, you can use active circuits or transformers, with transformers there is a price, as in money. I couldn't tell from the specs exactly what is intended as "instrument" except the input impedance is pretty high, so I'd assume guitar/bass is on that list. Many synths have a line level output, so it may also accept that hot of signal.

As the interface as phantom power, I'm not sure there is any advantage to not using its preamps, unless the "tubepre" is that much better. As you may know, the tube isn't a gain stage, but a low voltage effect. If you like the effect on instrument or mic, then I'd say use it.
 
The "tube" pres at that level of the market (I have a Presonus Blue tube & a Behri one as well) don't really do anything real in the signal path - they are electronic pres that use a tube to add colour/noise.
There are some youtube folk who demo the things adding crunch to signals etc but I'm alittle dubious myself.
I actually prefer the sound of the Behri mic100 to the presonus but again they don't add tube compression/saturation etc just noise - it may be a noise you'd like.
I've used both for bass & guitar - the results are perfectly fine but not TUBE sounding.
Eventually I bought a Kustom Defender H5 5 watt valve amp for a little more than the cost of the presonus & from ther eget REAL tube sound: break up, saturation, etc etc etc though I do have to have my head around micing etc to get THAT sound in the box (that took some time but I'm almost confident now).
There's be no need for Phantom power for instruments & should only need the mic into pre phamtom for a condensor. No DI between them so long as you have the right device to run into your computer.
 
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