Detached vocals... please help

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Volrath

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Hi all!!

I really wanted to get a good process down for recording vocals. I have a Tascam US-1800 for my interface, and use Reaper for a DAW. Due to $$ issues, we currently have only 3 mics... two Audio-Technica POS.. and a SM-57. So we usually record a song as a band, and then I'll go back and dub vocals over (on the SM-57). My problem is that they just seem distant, or detached from the music.. Now I have gone back and added some reverb, but its getting to the point where after adding x-amount of reverb to the vocal track.. it just seems washed out.. I mean it doesn't seem so distant anymore, but like it just doesn't "fit" with the music. Can anyone with Reaper knowledge give me some pointers??

Thanks in advance!

Volrath
 
Oh BTW... if I'm hazy or if you need more clarification about anything.. please ask me!!!
 
Have you tried compressing the vocals?

Many people record vocals with large diaphragm condenser microphones. I realize you don't have one unless one of those AT mics is a consenser mic, but I'm assuming from your unfavorable description that they're dynamic mics. The microphone is going to be a pretty important part of your live sound. SM-57's a great for recording several things...like snares and guitar cabs...but you can probably find a much more appropriate mic for your vocals.

In the meantime, you might try some compression. There's a free plugin that I love for vocal compression called "blockfish." I also use a TASCAM and Reaper, and I don't think your problem is either of those things.
 
Thank you for the comment. I'll look into blockfish... This is another newbie question.. but at what type of peak or range should i set the compression for a favorable sound?? If thats even an applicable question..... ><
 
Volrath said:
Thank you for the comment. I'll look into blockfish... This is another newbie question.. but at what type of peak or range should i set the compression for a favorable sound?? If thats even an applicable question..... ><
Click to expand...

It normally is a decent question, and you should read up on audio compression so that you know what you're doing, but the reason that I recommended that plugin is because you don't really have to know a ton...it's got a big knob on it and the more you turn it to the right, the more compression it applies. It also has an "output" knob on it, which you can use to increase the overall volume of the track to make up for any volume lost through the compression, and it has another one that says something like "saturation..." Basically, you can totally use your ears with this plugin without really knowing what you're doing. I don't recommend that...I think we oughtta' all educate ourselves, but for where you are right now, just try it and see if it doesn't make your vocal track blend into the music better while still being audible.

For a vocal using that plug, I like to keep the saturation on minimum. I also like to use the "air" button, lol. Oh, and I also run it in stereo...

The problem you're probably having is that in order to hear the quietest parts of your vocal, you're having to turn it up to where it sounds like it's not part of the music, right? Try some compression, then just a little reverb. Rule of thumb on reverb is to turn it up until you can hear it, then pull it back 20%.
 
Very imformative!! Thank you so very much man! Can't tell you how much that helps me out. I'm still very new at this, but I have so much fun doing it. One other quick question.. The way in which i record our band is that i'll set up all the mics... then have everyone play seperately (to eq everyone to about -12 db) then, eq again with us all playing, and make sure the levels are consistent. Is this.. ummm.. a normal way to go about recording a band??
 
Volrath said:
Very imformative!! Thank you so very much man! Can't tell you how much that helps me out. I'm still very new at this, but I have so much fun doing it. One other quick question.. The way in which i record our band is that i'll set up all the mics... then have everyone play seperately (to eq everyone to about -12 db) then, eq again with us all playing, and make sure the levels are consistent. Is this.. ummm.. a normal way to go about recording a band??
Click to expand...

Your terminology is a little off, I think. If what you're saying is that you check the levels of everybody before you start playing, that's right. That's not really "EQ," but I think I know what you're talking about. If your PEAKS are around -12, you're fine. Some people will say that you should be peaking no higher than -18. Some people say just don't clip. I tend to track where the peaks stay a little below -12 in Reaper, but I'm no professional...I just like there to be zero chance of a clip.
 
Ooops... sorry for verbage error.... but yea that's exactly what i meant. So i guess.. i'm doing things somewhat right... as far as that bit goes...... Thanks again man!
 
I have found that adding a little compression during tracking and then adding a bit more during mixing can help. also mic placement is important. If you mic close to the singer you will get a more intimate, detailed sound and more low frequencies (if you are using a directional mic, which most of us do) which don't always sit well in a busy mix. Backing the mic off a bit and/or cutting low and low-mids can help.
 
Try using delay instead of reverb. Delay can help a vocal sit into the band without getting a washed out as using reverbs. if you want the delay to be less apparent, set the delay to 1/4 or 1/8 note values
 
What to you mean by detached(doesn't fit) because when I record guitar and voice I have to do them both at the same time. Its allot different if your not playing and singing at the same time. Try recording the guitar/voice to a click track, then mute the click track and record drums to the guitar and voice,then rerecord your guitar and voice so that they fit with the drums. The first guitar and voice tracks you do are gonna be scratch tracks. See if this helps at all because its what I have to do to keep every sounding tight.
 
m.g. eddie said:
What to you mean by detached(doesn't fit) because when I record guitar and voice I have to do them both at the same time. Its allot different if your not playing and singing at the same time. Try recording the guitar/voice to a click track, then mute the click track and record drums to the guitar and voice,then rerecord your guitar and voice so that they fit with the drums. The first guitar and voice tracks you do are gonna be scratch tracks. See if this helps at all because its what I have to do to keep every sounding tight.
Click to expand...

Sorry dood, but what the hell does that have to do with anything the OP asked? Click track what??? Lay off the weed bro. Eat some carrots.

Jimmy
 
One thing also to bear in mind is the amount of reverb a vocal needs is dependent on the other elements in a track. If you take say Britney Spears 'Toxic' the vocal at the beginning sounds pretty much completely dry, but as there are other very dry sounds it fits it. If you tried to take that dry track and place it in say a ZZ Top track from the 80's it's gonna stick out. In other words maybe you've got too much reverb on your guitars e.t.c. and trying to match it completely washes out your vocal.

Also bear in mind If you have too much mid range content say from 700hz- 4khz in your other instruments the vocal will have nowhere to fit in the mix and will either sit on top of the mix or if you turn it down slightly sound unclear. Removing a few decibels of this range from your guitars may be part of your problem (it may not) as well as the compression, recording techniques and delay suggestions made earlier.
 
Using a Vocal bus can help make vocals less detached from the mix...I usually create a vocal bus and have main vocals send/recieve to vocal bus...I also create a bus for drums,electric guitar,acoustic guitar,backup vocals ect.

Create an effects bus to send/recieve all your effects.

You can send/recieve reverb on main vocal track...you can also add some reverb/effects to the bus tracks as well depending on how it sounds.

you could try recording vocals more than once...record vocals...then try and record them again to the original vocal and get it as exact as you possibly can...This will enhance the vocals...adding a whisper vocal track can help as well and add more air to the vocals...since your using an sm 57 maybe having more than one vocal take will help a bit.
 
Not sure what your using for reverb however here is a free one that i use a lot and sounds decent enough...TC electronic was giving it away in 2010 however I kept the links they emailed me and they still work so grab it while you still can if you need plugins.

windows version

Email LinkClicked Listener

Mac (including Snow Leopard): version

Email LinkClicked Listener


m30_reverb.jpg
 
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