delay + vibrato/tremolo = delay modulation?

[cordura21]

delay + vibrato or tremolo = delay modulation?

delay modulation modulates the time of the delay, before an after, right?

That way you can do flanging, phaisng, etc...

Can I get somthing similar with a vibrato/tremolo fed into a simple delay (no mod) ? If so, how?

Cheers, Andrés

 

[blackmusic]

I'm taking a shot at this...

Firstly, vibrato is the changing of pitch which has really nothing to do with delay. Vibrato would slightly change the pitch, delay doesnt do that. Tremolo is the changing of the signal volume (which delay does, but waaay differently). Thats the sound that you hear during alot of 60-70s music. Delay is constantly sampling and playing back what you have just played, at different (usually more lower) volume levels. So with delay, when you stop playing, you can still hear a sort of echo (your playing) fading out. The closest thing to delay would be reverb.

 

[TexRoadkill]

Your sorta on the right track. What exactly are you trying to do? Do you want to be able to use the same track for doubling?

 

[cordura21]

No, I'm trying to emulate a mod-delay effect, to create some flanging and phasing.
I know that modulating the time of the delay will create a combing filtering effect, which causes phasing and flanging depending on the time variable.

I'm thinking... if I put a tremolo before the delay, and then I put feedback into it... the original signal will be mixed with a detuned version of it, right? Isn't that chorus?

 

[TexRoadkill]

I saw your post about the Edge and delay modulation. They are talking about some different stuff where you can get the delays to modulate.

That is different in that each delay will have a slightly different pitch. I guess putting a delay before a chorus or flanger would give that type of effect but wouldnt be as precise.

A basic chorus effect is really just a doubled sound with a slightly different pitch. The greater the difference in pitch then the greater the chorus effect.

When you constantly modulate the pitch then you have more of a flanger effect.

To do a chorus I would send the signal thru a quick single slap back delay and run the delayed sound thru an EQ to change the tone. The real way to do it would be to run the delayed signal thru a pitch shifter.

A similar effect is using Filtering (similar to Wah Wah) and the Edge does that alot. That is where you can in realtime add a changing EQ to the tone and drive it with a Low Frequence Oscillator. You could fake this by using a parametric or graphic EQ and changing the parameters while it is playing. You could automate a DAW EQ to do this.

Tremelo only modulates volume (I think), not pitch, so you wont really get the chorus or flange effect. There needs to some modulation of pitch to get either of those effects.

The old school way of getting Flange and Chorus was to split a signal and run it through a tape loop. When you touched the tape roller and slowed it down slightly it would slow the pitch compared to the original signal and create chorus. If you constantly changed the pitch then it becomes more of a Flanger.

You can still get some cool effects with delay and vibrato but you need to find a way to alter the pitch of the secondary signal and combine it with the original.

I may be off on some of this so any corrections are welcome.

 

[cordura21]

You can still get some cool effects with delay and vibrato but you need to find a way to alter the pitch of the secondary signal and combine it with the original.

I think that's what I can get. Say I pluck a note on the guitar. The vibrato will then modulate the signal to a lower pitch. Menawhile, the first "sample" (the orignal pitch) is triggered back by the delay. In that way, both signals will encounter at that time. That's chorus isn't it? And if the vibrato keeps changing the pitch, then it will flange or phase. It's like doing it in the reverse order. The secondary signal is the original pitch, and the main signal is the detuned version. If I am correct it should have a similar result. Am I right?

BTW, whatI never undestood about delays is why they changed the pitch of the sound when you changed the delay time, for example the Boss delay pedals.

 

[TexRoadkill]

I think your gonna just have to hook it up and see what you can get. If you have a wah you can use that to help add some filter effects to the signals. You could split the signal and run different parallel lines thru the stuff. Just try some different combos.

The delays would change the pitch because they are essentially sampling the sound at a fixed unit of time, say 3 seconds (a digital tape loop). When you speed up the rate you are telling it to play back that 3 seconds at double speed. So if it catches some delays in the signal while the rate is changing it will raise their pitch. The later delays that come in after the change are not effected because there is no speed change going on with them. Did that make sense?

The main component of the Edge's delays is the multi tap. That is where one delay is hitting (for example) 1/4 notes and that delay is fed into another delay hitting 1/8 note triplets. so every quarter note gets triplets following behind it. That gives the delay a galloping type of rythm.(you didnt ask about that but just in case you are wondering)