J
jwarv
New member
How would you fine folks describe what makes up a good hook?
And......GO!
And......GO!
Aaron Cheney
Favorite Chord: C 6/9
That's easy.... a good hook is one that you remember.
When I write the hook of a song, I try to make it a rythmic, melodic, or lyrical surprise.
A
www.aaroncheney.com
When I write the hook of a song, I try to make it a rythmic, melodic, or lyrical surprise.
A
www.aaroncheney.com
vox
Member
If I had to define it I'd say its the feature of the song that 'grabs' you, hence the name. I also don't think there's a formula for generating hooks although 'familiarity' is often used as a safe (but boring) substitute.
bsanfordnyc
New member
in a word:
repetition
repetition
tanlith
King of the Wicker People
Aaron Cheney said:
I agree... it's what makes a song memorable. On instance comes immediately to mind... the song "Mellow Yellow" from WAAAY back when... all I gotta hear is the hi-hat intro and that song is stuck in my head for days!
For me the "hook" to that song is the hi-hat... I don't buy into the whole "the hook is in the lyrics" concept... although that is no doubt true in many cases. I think it all depends on the song and how it's composed.
In the case of lyrics, for me the part that makes me come back for more is a clever or inspirational phrase... one song by Dani Linnetz called The Library that has two paricular verses that impress me:
"Make my way down town to the library
To burry myself in the volumes of diaries
I need someone else’s life
To inspire me today"
and
"All day now I have been consumed by your kiss
The way your hands run slowly across my skin
Breathin’ me out, breathin’ you in
And if and when it will happen again"
And the way she delivers the lyrics into the song kinda hit home for me.
I think that in general the "hook" of any song is more or less a personal thing... different for different folks. When you write and say to yourself "this right here is the hook!" --- I might listen and for me the part that "hooks" me is something else altogether... or I might not even get "hooked"... which is why some people will like your music and some just won't...
Wow... think I got a little carried away there
- Tanlith -
Aaron Cheney
Favorite Chord: C 6/9
tanlith said:
A hook definitely does not have to be lyrical - it can be any instrument in the song. A great song is chock-full of hooks, from the chorus to the guitar riff. Here a couple great instrumental hooks:
Umm.. just about any hard rock riff song. For the sake of space we'll go wtih Cat Scratch Fever by Nugent and Smoke on the Water by Deep Purple.
-----------------------------
"Something" by the Beatles - for example if I sang the lyrics:
Don't want to leave her now,
You know I believe and how...
you almost can't even imagine those two lines without the guitar line that follows them.
-------------------------------------
Another example:
Curbside Prophet by Jason Mraz has the funky little banjo line after every line:
I'm a curbside prophet with my hand in my pocket and I'm waiting for my rocket to come... (deedle-dee, dee-dee, dee-dee-dee)
A songwriter should be crammin' hooks into their song until it's just bursting with hooks.
A
www.aaroncheney.com
Sonic Misfit
New member
I agree, a hook is anything about the song that makes it stick in people's minds. However, a great hook is one that sticks in people's minds and makes them feel good about it.
Good hook - "Rubber Ducky"
Great instrumental hook - The guitar part in "My Girl" or the guitar riff in the Beatles "Day Tripper"
Country phrase hook - "Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys"
If you want a country song that is full of hooks, check out "Folsom Prison Blues" - from the guitar intro to the end of the song is one big hook! Even the rhythm section.
Good hook - "Rubber Ducky"
Great instrumental hook - The guitar part in "My Girl" or the guitar riff in the Beatles "Day Tripper"
Country phrase hook - "Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys"
If you want a country song that is full of hooks, check out "Folsom Prison Blues" - from the guitar intro to the end of the song is one big hook! Even the rhythm section.
Aaron Cheney
Favorite Chord: C 6/9
Sonic Misfit said:
So in other words, the hook from Muskrat Love by Captain & Tenneile is a not a good hook???!!! ARe you insane??
And a one, and a two, and a....
Muskrat Suzie
Muskrat Sam
Two little muskrats
In muskrat land
Pure unadulterated genious! You'll have that going through your mind for a week.
Oh, wait... now I will too...
A
www.aaroncheney.com
tanlith
King of the Wicker People
The fact that Muskrat Love was ever a hit song is undeniable proof that there much more drug abuse in the 70's then there ever was in the 60's!
- Tanlith -
- Tanlith -
DigitalSmigital
A slice of analog pie?
With many popular songs, you have to suffer through the verse, where the writer is putting the story development, so to get to the chorus, where the hook has got to be, or you won't go through another verse again.
Smoke on the Water is a great example, a real bad, boring song, but one of the rock world's greatest hooks ever.
I don't agree that a song could be chock full 'o hooks. Just as a musical performance needs dynamic variation, so does the flow of a song. You may like all the lyrics, you may like the instrumentation of the verses or chorus or bridge, but it needs a hook somewhere to look forward to.
Smoke on the Water is a great example, a real bad, boring song, but one of the rock world's greatest hooks ever.
I don't agree that a song could be chock full 'o hooks. Just as a musical performance needs dynamic variation, so does the flow of a song. You may like all the lyrics, you may like the instrumentation of the verses or chorus or bridge, but it needs a hook somewhere to look forward to.
Sonic Misfit
New member
Aaron Cheney said:So in other words, the hook from Muskrat Love by Captain & Tenneile is a not a good hook???!!! ARe you insane??
And a one, and a two, and a....
Muskrat Suzie
Muskrat Sam
Two little muskrats
In muskrat land
Pure unadulterated genious! You'll have that going through your mind for a week.
Oh, wait... now I will too...
A
www.aaroncheney.com
Damn you Aaron...Now I have the Muskrat song stuck in my head again!!!!
I admit the Muskrat song is a GOOD hook, and I might have not been clear on the idea of a GREAT hook. To be a GREAT hook, it would stick in your mind and would also strike the listener on an emotional level. The best emotional level would be to leave the listener feeling good. Please note that this idea is not mine, but that I am paraphrasing from a song writing workshop that I went to recently where Jason Blume talked about hooks.
Now I think I'm going to grab my rifle, head back to the bayou and shoot some muskrats!! (Therapy you know.)
By the way...Does anyone have any good muskrat recipes??
J
jwarv
New member
CLOSURE
I guess I got my answer.
So, to sum up: A good hook does not necessarily mean a good song but may still sell records because people are infected by the hook. However, one does not really know what will be an effective hook until it's out there. So, it's hard to say what will be a hook while in the studio. Unless you have a trained ear for hooks or invite at least 100 people into your recording session to poll which part(s) of a song is the ultimate hook. Because a hook to one man may be nothing or even an annoyance to another.
Or something like that.
I guess I got my answer.
So, to sum up: A good hook does not necessarily mean a good song but may still sell records because people are infected by the hook. However, one does not really know what will be an effective hook until it's out there. So, it's hard to say what will be a hook while in the studio. Unless you have a trained ear for hooks or invite at least 100 people into your recording session to poll which part(s) of a song is the ultimate hook. Because a hook to one man may be nothing or even an annoyance to another.
Or something like that.
Aaron Cheney
Favorite Chord: C 6/9
Well...not exactly. Hooks aren't accidents. As a songwriter you can purposefully write hooks, and just like anything else, your ability to write powerful hooks increases the more you practice.
At the most basic level, a hook is just some phrase (lyrical or musical) that is repeated enough times to be remembered. For example, there are lots of songs with a chorus that just repeats the title four times. THat's a hook.... a boring hook, but a hook nonetheless.
A skilled songwriter can craft a hook that is more memorable and appealing than that by applying different techniques that make it stand out. For example, a well written song should make it clear where the title goes even when the lyrics aren't present. Some ways to do this are with a dramatic pause, a surprising rhythmic twist, a sudden high or low not that comes "out of the blue", or perhaps a some band punches or other gimmick.
And Sonic Misfit is right on about the emotion thing. Songs are nothing without emotional content. When you are writing a melody it's usually best to keep it linear (without too many big interval skips) because that makes it easier for most people to sing. However, linear melodies are often emotionally neutral. When you arrive at a point in the lyrics where you want to really provoke a powerful emotion, throw in a big interval jump - works every time.
Linear = emotionally neutral
Big intervals = emotionally powerful
A
www.aaroncheney.com
At the most basic level, a hook is just some phrase (lyrical or musical) that is repeated enough times to be remembered. For example, there are lots of songs with a chorus that just repeats the title four times. THat's a hook.... a boring hook, but a hook nonetheless.
A skilled songwriter can craft a hook that is more memorable and appealing than that by applying different techniques that make it stand out. For example, a well written song should make it clear where the title goes even when the lyrics aren't present. Some ways to do this are with a dramatic pause, a surprising rhythmic twist, a sudden high or low not that comes "out of the blue", or perhaps a some band punches or other gimmick.
And Sonic Misfit is right on about the emotion thing. Songs are nothing without emotional content. When you are writing a melody it's usually best to keep it linear (without too many big interval skips) because that makes it easier for most people to sing. However, linear melodies are often emotionally neutral. When you arrive at a point in the lyrics where you want to really provoke a powerful emotion, throw in a big interval jump - works every time.
Linear = emotionally neutral
Big intervals = emotionally powerful
A
www.aaroncheney.com
A
altcountry
New member
Pssssst- Muskrat Love was originally by 'America', you know--horse with no name, sister golden hair, ventura hwy, etc. Just thought I'd throw that at you.
B
Benreturns
New member
A hook is ANYTHING in a song which at most: makes you want to hear it again or at the very least, causes you to remember the song for that particular feature and hum it inside your head. A hook can be a vocal phrases, singalong chorus, musical riff, drum beat... anything. Its all good!
O
old dan
New member
Hmm, just finished writing a three part article about hooks. Rather than cut and paste them here, here's the link
http://www.thefreedomexchange.com/content/view/19/32/
http://www.thefreedomexchange.com/content/view/19/32/
Alanfc
New member
Hooray-
thank you for bringing this up, because I've now become obsessed with hooks, that is, my lack of Hooks. I'd like to thank a fellow HR member for bringing this to my attention today. Now I'm obsessed. I may want to go back to these songs I have up now, and find a way to revamp the music and/or vocal melody to have something, ANYTHING, like a hook. Musically, I think there's something in each of the tunes to draw from and reshape. And clean up the arrangements too.
I'm glad the Hook doesn't have to be vocal or lyrical. I had always thought that a Hook was the "pre-chorus" or the "setup", and I thought that was old-fashioned 70's-80's cheesy pop music. Wrong, dude.
I'm listening for Hooks everywhere now, not to copy but to identify. I mean it all seems so objective to me. Every song I hear every where. ("is this the hook? well, it is for me", or "where's the hook in THAT song?") In some songs I'm noticing things that are so obviously crafted as hooks that they're cheesy and contrived. I guess I have to do what pleases my senses and hope atleast some listeners will see it my way. I'm realizing for me thats pretty much artistic expression in a nutshell, and the risk the creative person takes.
there, I've said alot, but said Nothing ! No Hook.......
thank you for bringing this up, because I've now become obsessed with hooks, that is, my lack of Hooks. I'd like to thank a fellow HR member for bringing this to my attention today. Now I'm obsessed. I may want to go back to these songs I have up now, and find a way to revamp the music and/or vocal melody to have something, ANYTHING, like a hook. Musically, I think there's something in each of the tunes to draw from and reshape. And clean up the arrangements too.
I'm glad the Hook doesn't have to be vocal or lyrical. I had always thought that a Hook was the "pre-chorus" or the "setup", and I thought that was old-fashioned 70's-80's cheesy pop music. Wrong, dude.
I'm listening for Hooks everywhere now, not to copy but to identify. I mean it all seems so objective to me. Every song I hear every where. ("is this the hook? well, it is for me", or "where's the hook in THAT song?") In some songs I'm noticing things that are so obviously crafted as hooks that they're cheesy and contrived. I guess I have to do what pleases my senses and hope atleast some listeners will see it my way. I'm realizing for me thats pretty much artistic expression in a nutshell, and the risk the creative person takes.
there, I've said alot, but said Nothing ! No Hook.......
J
jwarv
New member
CAPTAIN HOOK
That was a good article Old Dan. And thanks everyone for your input. I gotta go play hooky now.
That was a good article Old Dan. And thanks everyone for your input. I gotta go play hooky now.
S
sackbutcharlie
New member
My thinking of a hook is that short simple phrase that a first time listener can pick up on really quickly and sing along. It is the little part of the song they will be humming to themselves after one listening.
One of my favorites is the Beatles' HELP.
One of my favorites is the Beatles' HELP.
J
Jotosuds
New member
when i think of a "HOOK", i think of very poppy sounding songs, which commonly use a progression like:
C G A F
i mean those songs by their very nature are hooks.
however, the songs that capture "hooky" characteristics throughout all parts of the song are truly the great pop songs.
stone me if you must, but Avril Lavigne's, I'm With You, is a song with amazing structure and deceptively strong hookiness.
the intro is hooky, the verse is hooky, the buildup is hooky, the chorus is definitely hooky, i see a pattern here
there's just something about that song that blows me away. it has a vibe and flow that is very subtle, but grabs your attention. the structure of the progressions and the buildup inbetween is very well done and catches the ear.
marvelous work in songwriting IMO.
C G A F
i mean those songs by their very nature are hooks.
however, the songs that capture "hooky" characteristics throughout all parts of the song are truly the great pop songs.
stone me if you must, but Avril Lavigne's, I'm With You, is a song with amazing structure and deceptively strong hookiness.
the intro is hooky, the verse is hooky, the buildup is hooky, the chorus is definitely hooky, i see a pattern here
there's just something about that song that blows me away. it has a vibe and flow that is very subtle, but grabs your attention. the structure of the progressions and the buildup inbetween is very well done and catches the ear.
marvelous work in songwriting IMO.