dedicated keyboard amp vs PA system

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hi, i have a roland kc-350 amp (details: http://www.rolandcorp.com.au/default.aspx?prd=163), but i am looking to upgrade, and my first thought was the kc-350's big brother, the kc-1000 (http://www.rolandcorp.com.au/default.aspx?prd=160). this is basically the mother of all keyboards amps from what i have seen, but after enquiring about this amp at a major music store, i was told they dont stock it (but can get it) because its retail price is around AU$5000 (about US$3750) and for that sort of money most keyboard players look at getting a PA instead. considering that i will only be using whatever i buy for my own personal foldback on stage (i will be running into a sound desk etc. to sort out the front of house), can anybody give me some advice on whether i would be better to stick with a dedicated keyboard amp, or go with a decent PA setup?
cheers
 
I would likely choose a small PA over the KC1000 for a couple of reasons. While your current situation allows you to send a signal to the mains, that may not always be the case. You may find yourself in various pick-up gigs, etc. that can't accomodate that - in which case a small PA set-up could allow you more options.

A small PA could allow you to have speakers on each side of the stage - which could be helpful if you are using stereo sounds and/or if the guys on the other side of the stage need to hear you better (again, you may not always go through the mains/monitors). A PA could also give you potantially more inputs - which may or may not be helpful at some point in time. Lastly, a small PA gives you - well, a PA sytem. It can be a nice benefit to be able to provide the PA for certain pick-up gigs and often you can ask for a larger cut (for providing the PA)

While the KC100 appears to have a speaker/cabinet design specifically engineered for keys (which can create the highest of highs and the lowest of lows) - since you currently go through the mains, your room sound is limited by the PA being used - so using a PA (vs. the KC1000) is not a significant compromise of sound. Only you can decide how important it is to you to have the sound quality of the KC1000 - which may be somewhat better for keys than a PA (in particular if it is only to monitor your performance - vs. the room sound).

The KC1000 looks like a pretty big unit - which could make moving it a challenge. While a PA may also be a bear to move, perhaps having 3 pieces (a powered amp/mixer and 2 speaker cabs) could be easier to move/pack than one large unit (more trips, but with small/lighter pieces). For the price of the KC1000 you could likely find a pretty decent sounding PA system.
 
Agree with everything above, I used to use a single Peavey KBA300... two men to lift it, very loud and everything but once you put a piano, strings, pads etc through a quality stereo PA you never look back. For me a keyboard amp is like getting a massage with a house brick. Guitars are designed for going through an amp (and then mic'ing the amp up if necessary) but a keyboard should always go through a PA in my opinion, therefore we've an active stereo PA for front and back. Ideally it would be nice if I had both monitor speakers in front and immediately to the left and right of me, but they have to cater for the whole band so I only really get to hear the closest one, but that's the main point for a live gig... as long as the FOH is pumping, you just need to hear yourself! So I would say unless you're Rik Wakeman playing at the superbowl next year and needing a couple of KC1000's for a true stereo foldback, your back and bank account will love you for going for something a little more manageable.
 
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thanks guys, ive been asking around and have been told Mackie SRM 350/450 is a good choice, ive managed to arrange to try one out at my next gig. anyone have any experience with these? or any other mackie setups?

thanks for the advice, keep it coming if you've got it :)
 
I was in the same position as you a couple of years ago and was going to buy a pair of SRM 450s based entirely on reviews on the web, but as I walked into the shop with my money in my hand, a pair were being demonstrated... this is purely subjective but I consider them DJ speakers, they were very clean sounding but it was like listening to my home stereo up loud, filtered mid-range or something, they didn't sound like 'band' gear... probably best suited to purely vocals.

Previously I listened to a cheap pair of powered Wharfedale EVP speakers and wasn't impressed, sound was quite distorted... but the guy in the shop said they've now a new range of active "X Series" Wharfedales, new titanium tweeters, had a listen and to my ears they were spot on, loud, gritty, clear & ballsy... sounded like band gear! and half the price of the Mackies. So I bought a full 6 speaker PA using them (FOH tops, subs and monitors) and all instruments (piano, lead guitar, bass, mic'ed drums, vocals) go through them and we've always had great comments about the sound quality.

But a lot of people (gear snobs lol) will tell you the Mackies are superior... only you can decide though
 
maybe just keep the amp you have no and go straight into the house pa?
 
I sold my Roland 550 and purchased a Samson db500a. My keyboard came alive and the price didn't break the bank. I tried the Mackie and it did not have the tone like the Samson.
 
Pa

I own an awesome PA, and a Roland KC-500 which is solely for rehearsal purpose - it's portable. But at a gig, there is no compromise. PA all the way.

I have two EV SH-1502 cabinets, a JBL amp that is so powerful and clean (amazing), and a Mackie DFX 12 channel mixer, and an EV stereo equalizer. I swear it's "Perfect Sound". I listen to all my CD's and tapes through it too. You will NEVER want to listen to music through a hi-fi (expensive junk) ever again.

When I play my piano and synth sounds through my PA, the sound is THERE. No hesitancy, no hollowness, impact and punch and clarity and... well, get the idea? lol
 
The question that immediately comes to mind when I read this thread is: how much volume do you need for your personal foldback? That Roland KC-1000 is *huge*, do you really need that kind of level? Likewise, using a PA for personal monitoring onstage is a massive amount of power. You'll no doubt be amplifying to the high heavens and then wear some sort of hearing protection. At least I hope you'll be wearing ear protection. I can only assume you play in a band that monitors *really, really loud* onstage.

Assuming that you don't absolutely require ear-splitting levels for your personal monitors, I have a couple recommendations.

One option is to get a second KC-350 and run your keyboards in stereo. Nothing beats monitoring keys in stereo, it's so much dramatically better than monitoring mono it's amazing. Using two KC-350's would also get you a good volume bump.

Another monitoring setup I've used is a pair of Yamaha MSP5's on mic stands at ear level. This sounds great, although it would probably not provide enough level if you are in a very loud monitoring situation. It also requires a bit more setup than a keyboard amp and is more fragile.

Overall, I'd suggest staying with keyboard amps, but get two of them and monitor in stereo. Not knowing your exact needs, my first option would a be a second KC-350, as I mentioned earlier. Easy setup and cabling, rugged, Not much gear to drag around, minimal teardown time.

The thought of carrying a full PA, mixer, and all that stuff just makes me cringe. All that weight, plus cabling, etc. I've done *so* many gigs, I like to get in and get out without spending huge amounts of time and effort setting up and tearing down. We are talking personal monitoring here, let's not get crazy about it--a couple keyboard amps and we are done.
 
Cazzbar: thanks for the tips, I'll try to listen too anything before I buy it :)

tom: the problem is the amp i've got is reaching the limits of its power, I need something a bit more powerful

sjas: thanks for that, ill see if i can check out the samson as well :)

todd: yeah that would be a pretty awesome setup. At the moment its looking like it'll just be a single (or possibly two) powered monitors, so far ive looked at JBL EON15G2's and Mackie SRM 450's.

Albert: yes, we do use very loud onstage monitoring. The drum kit we use is extremely loud (i.e. at a big out door gig once the sound tech forgot to mic the kick, and nobody noticed, despite the fact that the kick had a queen sized doona in it) and so we tend to turn everything else up and then yes, i have a pair of proper musician earplugs. I have thought about getting another KC350 and running stereo but i think that would still leave me wanting to upgrade before too long, and if i upgrade to a PA now, i can build on it later. And if I get something like the JBL's or Mackie's I mentioned above, they have their own built in mixer, amp, etc, so that would solve the problem of lots of setup/packup time.

thanks guys, been a great help already :)
 
Cool, hope we haven't confused you too much with our comments! I also get the impression your backline is a lot louder than our front of house :)

btw i always use musician ear plugs when pratising and listening to other bands as i had terrible hearing problems last year and therefore seriously value my ears. Although i can get away with not needing the plugs when playing live as we monitor at a medium level and can stay a distance away from the snare drum whose impact is dissipated in a large room, and which obviously doesn't need to come out of the monitors . Therefore if you were thinking of a double keyboard amp to be able to hear yourself above the drums (or whatever) and also needing musician ear plugs for safety then i'd suggest your on stage levels are more than a little wild! It's far more enjoyable to have things at a medium level without plugs than loud with plugs. So personally i'd put pressure on the loudest on stage member to calm things down a bit! Will also save you money and transport effort on extra monitoring gear, but as always only a suggestion, good luck.
 
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That's a good suggestion about volume levels from Cazzbar. If you have to get a PA system for your personal monitoring, then your band's monitoring levels are crazy loud. That's something you guys might want to seriously re-evaluate.

If you don't think that two KC-350's will cut it, that's *really* loud.

You might also want to look at TOA gear. I have an old TOA KB-2 keyboard amp that is still going strong after over 20 years. It has a horn tweeter and 15 inch woofer. It's basically a PA system in a keyboard amp form factor, I can fill up an entire hall with it by itself. A couple of those would be more than enough power, if you can find them.
 
thanks guys. I think im going to go with the PA idea, i spoke to the other guys in the band and we thought we'd all chip in for a couple of PA speakers and then if we're just doing smaller gigs we can use them for FOH and ill just use my amp for foldback. and when we're doing bigger gigs, well, we'll need some pretty serious FOH stuff anyway which will most likely already be in the venue. thanks for all your input guys, youve been teriffic :)
 
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