Dear Drummers, Can you do me a quick favor and tell me how bad my drums suck?

[junplugged]

I'm wondering if you can tell if the drums are novice or not on my recordings, I have 3 up on NWR, you can just listen to the latest, track 73, 'quick jam 69' since it's probably the best so far....

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2151&alid=-1

if you are bored and want to hear another, then 'break for fun' is an edit from my jamming on drums a while back - I took the least sucky part of the jam and overdubbed on it....

btw, forget about 'dry drums sample,' that's just a test of a sm57 single mic in my room and it has a long gap to start off - it should come down soon, skip it that one really sucks....

 

[MadAudio]

Hmmm, Firefox won't connect. I may have to switch to IE.

 

[patlang12]

I am not a drummer, but the hi hat in being in the middle seemed a little weird to me.

 

[PhilGood]

I'm wondering if you can tell if the drums are novice or not on my recordings,

I took the least sucky part of the jam and overdubbed on it....

btw, forget about 'dry drums sample,' that's just a test of a sm57 single mic in my room and it has a long gap to start off - it should come down soon, skip it that one really sucks....

These are all typical questions from someone who is obviously starting out. They're also the types of questions we experienced drummers should ask ourselves every day! Do I sound OK? Do I suck? After you get to a certain point, you stop being introspective and stop examining your own playing. That's where the ego takes over and you get a big head. Then you go to a club and spend the whole night at the back of the room with your arms folded, staring down the drummer of the band on stage thinking "I coulda played that better!"

So I'd have to say you don't suck, just for that reason alone. keep that going.

It's obvious you're a bit novice but let's look at the good points and then the bad. Your time is pretty good. You actually keep the tempo pretty solid! Sure there's hickups, but I usually do the first take or two (3, 4 ,...5) with plenty of those. You also stay within yourself. Another good thing. You aren't trying to play the Peart licks to show the guys in the room "I can play!". TIME is the most important and you seem to understand that.

The recording's quality is a little off, but it's clear and you get the idea. You've got a good balance of everything. There are some levels that are too hot. You don't over EQ, and that's good. Some of the drum tuning is weird, mostly on the bass drum. The snare sounds good. Get some better cymbals, though. The crash sounds like an 8-bit sample. How are you micing everything?

It sounds like you're somone whose open to criticism, and that's a very good quality for a musician to have.

Keep it up! Practice and never look back! (except to see if you're improving.)

I'd say you're a fine musician/engineer on your way.

 

[junplugged]

PhilGood,

Ego, I know what you mean, I lost that a long time ago, it's useless and gets inthe way. The only thing I want to do is get better and anything that gets in the way of that is out the door.

My timing - well, I had a drum machine inthe cans, but there's time as in steady time, then there's time in impact time, I guess, like getting the strike right, since when using a guide, you can get back pretty fast to the tempo if I start to vary a bit. I think the strikes I have the biggest trouble is the bass drum pedal.

I have noticed tho, over a few recordings that certain things don't stick out as much anymore, like the snare out of place, etc.

Bass drum - I tuned it as low as I could, maybe that's not good. One of the reasons was to keep it looser for less beater rebound that I was having a problem with, but not really as much anymore, so maybe I should tune it higher?

The crash is a 14" I liked the higher, lighter sound, I think I have a larger one somewhere around here I have to try again.

I have to look up my notes to see how I recorded it, more later, gotta get back to work.

Thanks for the listening and the detailed response, much appreciated! - j.

 

[BentRabbit]

These are all typical questions from someone who is obviously starting out. They're also the types of questions we experienced drummers should ask ourselves every day! Do I sound OK? Do I suck? After you get to a certain point, you stop being introspective and stop examining your own playing. That's where the ego takes over and you get a big head. Then you go to a club and spend the whole night at the back of the room with your arms folded, staring down the drummer of the band on stage thinking "I coulda played that better!"

So I'd have to say you don't suck, just for that reason alone. keep that going.

It's obvious you're a bit novice but let's look at the good points and then the bad. Your time is pretty good. You actually keep the tempo pretty solid! Sure there's hickups, but I usually do the first take or two (3, 4 ,...5) with plenty of those. You also stay within yourself. Another good thing. You aren't trying to play the Peart licks to show the guys in the room "I can play!". TIME is the most important and you seem to understand that.

The recording's quality is a little off, but it's clear and you get the idea. You've got a good balance of everything. There are some levels that are too hot. You don't over EQ, and that's good. Some of the drum tuning is weird, mostly on the bass drum. The snare sounds good. Get some better cymbals, though. The crash sounds like an 8-bit sample. How are you micing everything?

It sounds like you're somone whose open to criticism, and that's a very good quality for a musician to have.

Keep it up! Practice and never look back! (except to see if you're improving.)

I'd say you're a fine musician/engineer on your way.

Wow... you saved me a lot of typing... GREAT POST!

 

[junplugged]

Wow... you saved me a lot of typing... GREAT POST!

Wow, so you agree on that one, huh?! I was just watching the Steve Smith DVD - the double one voted best in 2003 by someone.... He was holding the sticks w/ thumb down (at snare drum) and it made me think I had it all wrong, then when he reached to play the toms, he was holding them like I hold them for everything, so I tried that at the snare and it was weird, should I change to that way? Is this important? gotta run....

 

[MadAudio]

You're talking matched grip vs. traditional grip. And it all depends on what works for you. When I was studying snare drum method, I used traditional grip, but when I went on to the drum set, my teacher let me choose which grip I wanted to use. I went with matched, although I still practice w/ traditional every now and then.

 

[BentRabbit]

Wow, so you agree on that one, huh?! I was just watching the Steve Smith DVD - the double one voted best in 2003 by someone.... He was holding the sticks w/ thumb down (at snare drum) and it made me think I had it all wrong, then when he reached to play the toms, he was holding them like I hold them for everything, so I tried that at the snare and it was weird, should I change to that way? Is this important? gotta run....

That DVD is next on my wish-list... I've seen the snippets of it on the Hudson Music site...

How you hold your sticks will end up being a matter of comfort combined with the chops you're playing...
I held my sticks in the 'traditional' style for a bajillion years or so... Then after taking a haitus from playing for a while, I started going with the 'matched' grip because I thought I should be playing my kit that way instead...
I was feeling like a cheater whenever I reverted back to the traditional grip for some chops...
Then after reading that Peart was encouraged to utilize traditional grip by his teacher (Fred Gruber), I didn't feel so bad...

Now I'm of the mindset 'just play'...

 

[ElaCid]

Dude - You don't suck

How are you.
I listened man. I don't think you suck. And I agree with one of the replies that it brings on a funny point that when you just start out, at least I loved everything I made, because I was just amazed that I was making music on my own but then when you make it up to a higher level, you know because you start evaluating yourself compared to others you feel are in your arena of talent.

I produced many songs on my own, Playing bass guitar, keyboard and also play drums but use a roland for much of my digital stuff. Maybe tell me if I suck - www.cidstudios.com The mood section you'd probably apprecate more depending on your taste.

But hat of to you and keep it up man - live drums, eat drums and shit drums and you will become drums. Listen to artists like Neil Peart from RUSH, even if you don't like the music learn to because he's a good example of consistancy. I learned how to play Bass Guitar by listening to RUSH and it paid off in many of my tracks.

Good luck to you.
Indie ElaCid
Studio Underground Music Productions
http://www.cidstudios.com

 

[junplugged]

You're talking matched grip vs. traditional grip. And it all depends on what works for you. When I was studying snare drum method, I used traditional grip, but when I went on to the drum set, my teacher let me choose which grip I wanted to use. I went with matched, although I still practice w/ traditional every now and then.

Well, matched grip vs. traditional, I kind of knew about, but there's something else I noticed. I'm using, or thought I was using matched grip. But, I've been holding the sticks with my thumb on top with my index finger wrapped around the stick. But on the Smith vid, I see him holding the stick with his thumb and index finger pointed down and the back of his hand and his knuckles are facing up. (instead of looking down and seeing all thumb, see back of hand)

But then the weird thing is when he extends to go hit a tom, he turned his hand to have the thumb up.

It's a big diff. in playing the snare and I see that there's a lot of pivot you can get w/ fingers that you can't get by pivoting the entire wrist, the way I had to do it, my way the forearm (the 2 bones) is vertical, his way, it's horizontal. I was like, shocked that I saw that for the first time.

 

[PhilGood]

Well, matched grip vs. traditional, I kind of knew about, but there's something else I noticed. I'm using, or thought I was using matched grip. But, I've been holding the sticks with my thumb on top with my index finger wrapped around the stick. But on the Smith vid, I see him holding the stick with his thumb and index finger pointed down and the back of his hand and his knuckles are facing up. (instead of looking down and seeing all thumb, see back of hand)

But then the weird thing is when he extends to go hit a tom, he turned his hand to have the thumb up.

It's a big diff. in playing the snare and I see that there's a lot of pivot you can get w/ fingers that you can't get by pivoting the entire wrist, the way I had to do it, my way the forearm (the 2 bones) is vertical, his way, it's horizontal. I was like, shocked that I saw that for the first time.

The only time I ever played traditional grip was when I was in Drum & Bugle Corps. I tried and tried to translate it to the kit, but I lost all the power compared to match grip. I'll use it for interesting hi-hat patterns or if I'm doing a jazz riff, but when I rock and hit hard I need my hands at 10 & 2!

 

[junplugged]

How are you.
I listened man. I don't think you suck. And I agree with one of the replies that it brings on a funny point that when you just start out, at least I loved everything I made, because I was just amazed that I was making music on my own but then when you make it up to a higher level, you know because you start evaluating yourself compared to others you feel are in your arena of talent.

I produced many songs on my own, Playing bass guitar, keyboard and also play drums but use a roland for much of my digital stuff. Maybe tell me if I suck - www.cidstudios.com The mood section you'd probably apprecate more depending on your taste.

But hat of to you and keep it up man - live drums, eat drums and shit drums and you will become drums. Listen to artists like Neil Peart from RUSH, even if you don't like the music learn to because he's a good example of consistancy. I learned how to play Bass Guitar by listening to RUSH and it paid off in many of my tracks.

Good luck to you.
Indie ElaCid
Studio Underground Music Productions
http://www.cidstudios.com

True, after a while on an instrument you know, but at a new one, it's hard to know if you're getting it, it feels good when you start to know, but it's been a long time since I was at that point in an instrument, so it's hard to remember....

But then it's good to stretch w/ new one's especially if you'll ever teach so you know how it feels to have that lingering question.

Glad it's not that bad, and Thanks a lot for the listen, comments, and encouragement. This place is great, I've said it before.

- - wow, cool looking web site, btw.

 

[PhilGood]

Bass drum - I tuned it as low as I could, maybe that's not good. One of the reasons was to keep it looser for less beater rebound that I was having a problem with, but not really as much anymore, so maybe I should tune it higher?

I read one of the paradoxes of recording is that some frequencies you hear, like extreme low end, don't get pick up well by some mics. If your kick sounds low and full in the room, but not on the recording, keep raising the pitch of the bass drum a little at a time until the lows are in the range for the mic. It really works! Also a resonant head adds a little sustain that extends the oomph.

 

[junplugged]

I read one of the paradoxes of recording is that some frequencies you hear, like extreme low end, don't get pick up well by some mics. If your kick sounds low and full in the room, but not on the recording, keep raising the pitch of the bass drum a little at a time until the lows are in the range for the mic. It really works! Also a resonant head adds a little sustain that extends the oomph.

That makes a ton of sense. Like adding EQ up around 20k b/c I read that some producer liked "air." Then I tried it and I had nothing in that freq. range, so I could boost all the 20k I wanted and I wouldn't get any diff. what so ever, not even noise, luckily for my setup.


(well, I do have another short thing up there, and I did tune up the kik, but it's not a big deal, just a test of a guitar w drums. Not going to post a new thread until I have a real tune done.)

 

[PhilGood]

That makes a ton of sense. Like adding EQ up around 20k b/c I read that some producer liked "air." Then I tried it and I had nothing in that freq. range, so I could boost all the 20k I wanted and I wouldn't get any diff. what so ever, not even noise, luckily for my setup.

To tell you the truth, even though the range of human hearing is suppose to be 20hz to 20khz, I don't think most people can really hear past 15-18khz. I've done so much bashing over the years I'll bet I can't hear past 13-14k. I know my left ear is a little stronger than my right.

The fundamental areas to EQ the kick are around 4-6k for attack, (that nice slap of the beater on the head) and the body around 700hz (wood. huh-huh!!) and the lows are probably most affected at 80-120hz.

I used to want that big bottom sound and kept adding more and more low end. All I was doing was mushing up the sound. I was about 23 when I realized i was at the wrong end of the EQ and I was missing the attack.

 

[patlang12]

In pyhsics this year we got a little thing going and some people could here up to about 23 I think, but yeah I think I agree with you because a lot of people lost it a lot sooner. And you must remeber these people were really trying to listen for it which is not happening during a song.

 

[patlang12]

I used to want that big bottom sound and kept adding more and more low end. All I was doing was mushing up the sound. I was about 23 when I realized i was at the wrong end of the EQ and I was missing the attack.

So how do you go about getting a really big bottom sound, because I have been having trouble getting it.

 

[PhilGood]

So how do you go about getting a really big bottom sound, because I have been having trouble getting it.

Alot of that is going to depend on the mic. You probably already know there are modern dynamic mics taylored to the frenquecies for recording bass drums. The low happens around 150hz, but it's secondary to the attack. If people hear the beater "thwap" and it's accompanied by the low end, the listener assumes it's a deep, low sound even though they're hearing a high frequency. Getting rid of the mids is important too. Check out the threads on sub-kick speaker mics. Don't use them alone, but use them to augment the primary mic.

Also things like how to tune, muffle and compress all come in to play. Compression sqeezes the signal down to where there is less difference between soft tones and loud. It can make a soft strike sound like a huge hit. If you listen to AC/DC's "Back in Black", the kick sounds huge. It's because of compression. I'm sure Mutt Lange shortened the bass drum beater stroke to get a little lighter hit, got the mic inside close to the head and then compressed it so it sounded like a BIG drum being hit hard.

Don't muffle the kick as much as you think you should. It should resonate, but without any overtones. That's the only drum I pay attention too as far as dampening.