DDA Q series vs. Soundcraft Vienna II

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WarmJetGuitar

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In a huge dilemma as for mixing desks. We plan on retirering our Fostex 820 in favour of something more profesional and flexible.

We're on a budget of around 800 euro and the choice seems to be between two front of house live desks, both with sufficient direct outs and subgroups which makes them suitable for studio use as far as I can tell. Given they're both in good condition, would you prefer a Soundcraft Vienna II or a DDA Q-series?
Both is modular and both can be including a spare power connection. The DDA is from around '91 and the Soundcraft is from '98. I like the idea of getting a Soundcraft as there's plenty of them around so spare parts should be easy though the DDA is a tad cheaper and looks better :-)
What's your advice? How do they compare sonically? Work flow wise? Any tips for testing the units when I don't have the option of hooking up a tape recorder? Any disadvantages to them being designed for live use? Suppose they're really sturdy which is brilliant as we want a desk we can use the next ten years without too much trouble.
 
I am probably the only one on this forum that runs a DDA. Mine is a QII. There are two versions, you can read the manuals for them online by searching, I think that Midas has all that information.
Neither is a truly studio recording type board, mainly because of lack of busses. But they are very very flexible. I use the direct outs via patch bay to the tape machine and tape machine back into line in via a patch bay. I rarely have to patch it any other way but its a snap to do.

The pluses -
Transformer coupled all strips (check though as this was an option)
+4dB in and out (everything), no level shifters required.
All inputs and outputs fully balanced including, matrix, foldback, inserts and returns.
Mine is equipped with LCR (left, right, center) output modules and metering.
There were many options available, stereo input modules, VCA input modules.
AWESOME EQ, (sweepable parametric), as good as anything out there IMHO.
Reliable (only issue I have ever had after installing it was a bent pin on an input module, my fault).
Built like a tank.

Minus -
Parts are very hard to find at least here in the states, but fortunately all the electronic components are readily available. However I did just score on a ton of spares, out of Israel of all places, basically just for shipping charges. Just got to keep your eyes open.

After I figured out how to make it work in my recording studio I am very glad I did. Using the matrices, I can send to the musicians 6 custom stereo mixes. With over 1,600 LEDS it sure is purdy in a dimly lit studio, LOL.

Unfortunately I have no experience with the other, so we will have to wait for someone else to chime in.

The only way that board would come out of my studio is if something like a vintage Neve dropped into my lap. I love it.
 
Thanks mate, I'll recieve it tonight and start hooking it up. Can't wait :-)
I'll probably be back with questions later on. It has two channels that doesn't work but the price is right.

mdainsd said:
I am probably the only one on this forum that runs a DDA. Mine is a QII. There are two versions, you can read the manuals for them online by searching, I think that Midas has all that information.
Neither is a truly studio recording type board, mainly because of lack of busses. But they are very very flexible. I use the direct outs via patch bay to the tape machine and tape machine back into line in via a patch bay. I rarely have to patch it any other way but its a snap to do.

The pluses -
Transformer coupled all strips (check though as this was an option)
+4dB in and out (everything), no level shifters required.
All inputs and outputs fully balanced including, matrix, foldback, inserts and returns.
Mine is equipped with LCR (left, right, center) output modules and metering.
There were many options available, stereo input modules, VCA input modules.
AWESOME EQ, (sweepable parametric), as good as anything out there IMHO.
Reliable (only issue I have ever had after installing it was a bent pin on an input module, my fault).
Built like a tank.

Minus -
Parts are very hard to find at least here in the states, but fortunately all the electronic components are readily available. However I did just score on a ton of spares, out of Israel of all places, basically just for shipping charges. Just got to keep your eyes open.

After I figured out how to make it work in my recording studio I am very glad I did. Using the matrices, I can send to the musicians 6 custom stereo mixes. With over 1,600 LEDS it sure is purdy in a dimly lit studio, LOL.

Unfortunately I have no experience with the other, so we will have to wait for someone else to chime in.

The only way that board would come out of my studio is if something like a vintage Neve dropped into my lap. I love it.
Click to expand...
 
Let me know more about the "channels that dont work" as you get to going through it.

Mine came out of a studio in Hollywood. While it was there for years and years, all the sends and returns had 1/4" plugs installed to wire into the studio gear. Then when I got it I started going through it and had "dead" channels. What it was, universally was that the send and return jacks had their contacts fouled with years of studio cigarette smoke (gross). so when the plugs were not in, the normal connections were not making contact. Deoxit is your friend! The way to verify this is the problem with a dead strip is to plug a 1/4" TRS to TRS cable from the channels send to its return. If the channels comes to life, get to cleaning! Id do them all anyway.
 
New DDA Q Series 32 X 8 X 2 Console

Only just today I picked up a DDA Q Series mix desk, 32 X 8 X 2.
So little information or talk of these boards anywhere on the 'net. Strange.

Apparently they never had the production numbers or distribution of for instance, Soundcraft, though seem to be fairly similar in much of the design (& philosophy?).

Oddly enough it was very recently that I picked up a 32 channel SC Delta 8 and had not even had a chance to clean and install it when I came upon the DDA Q Series.

Am guessing that the DDA would edge out the Soundcraft in sonic performance, though again, the Delta is still on end as an empty frame, modules still in boxes.

As I prep my room I'm hoping to find out more about both of these mixers so that I can make a decision as to which one to set up (enviable position to be in perhaps?).

The SC Delta came out of a fixed facility and came to me as originally ordered with fine, smooth Penny & Giles faders. Very sweet feeling with a nice even glide.

The DDA is not in quite as nice condition, though is very close. I'd give them each about an 8 or 9, perhaps closer to a 9 especially given the age (early '90's?).

My gut instinct is to set up the DDA and leave the Delta stored until I can play with the Q Series a little bit. Would love to keep both, but they are big boards!

Anyone have an opinion as to whether one or the other of these will edge out the other in terms of audio capability? I realize the DDA Q was originally a live desk.

Nice to find others using the DDA consoles. Thanks for any info shared.

SC
 
Great! Hit me up if you have questions about your Q.

Dont worry about it being a "live" desk, it is flexible enough to do just about anything you want with it.

My opinion is that these are unrealized gems.

I got the parts lot form Israel that I mentioned above so now Im modifying!
 
Hey there mdainsd;

THANKS for the offer of assistance. Much appreciated. First thing that comes to mind, and that I noticed right away, was all of the XLR's on the back! (the channel line inputs)
Perhaps this is my first "pro level" board, but I've never had anything that needed XLR connectors for the line inputs, so am scratching my head about cabling and connectivity.
I'll be initially using an Alesis HD24XR for DAW interface / recording and that unit is all 1/4" TRS. Pretty much everything else outboard that I use is 1/4" as well, whether TRS or TS.
Do I use adapters plugged in and simply left in the rear XLR jacks?
Use patch cables with ends of XLR male to TRS?
Wire the board to a patchbay and work from that? (kind of appreciate this option)
I realize that this is not specific to the DDA and others who have moved up the console ladder per se to this type of mix desk face this same scenario, but this is my first and so want opinions / options.

Next, right off the bat is the power supply. We had powered it up at the sellers place just to quickly test the board and all seemed fine. Back here at home, removing the cover I was greeted with wads of dust and fur balls, so first thing was a good cleaning. Yuck.
Everything looks solid, no obviously bulging caps or such and I've not even tested voltages or put a scope on the output yet. Mine is a PSU 2/A. Are these supplies considered adequate as they are or are beefier (newer) components suggested or recommended?

Figure that I may as well start right even before setting up the mixer, which may even be a few weeks in the process as I prep my room. Even though everything seems to be here and fully intact. I'd love to find a supply source for parts, as you did. How did you discover / find that?

Thanks again;

Scott C.
 
Hmmm.

First off familiarize yourself with the site: ddaconsoles.com The manuals are there as well as the schematics and technical information. All in PDFs and downloadable.

Are you sure about the line inputs being XLR? Mine are all TRS for line inputs. Tip hot, ring cold sleeve ground. All +4dBu. The only XLRs on the input strips are "mic in".

Patchbays are the way to go as far as I am concerned.

I am not familiar with the Alesis. Are the line ins and outs all balanced and at +4dBu?

The power supply is indeed where you should start. All that dust and yuck shortens power supply life. Clean it out good good. Put a scope on the supplies using AC coupling and high gain and check for ripple or noise. This is how you determine the health of the capacitors in the P/S.

There are "replacement" supplies around, but I have found nothing lacking in the factory ones. Mine console is a 40X8X3(2) so there is more load on the supply than your 24 wide is demanding.

I found the spares on ebay. I did a subscribed search so Id get an email alert when anything "DDA QII" got listed.

Currently mods in process for mine are: The left hand 24 input strips only have the small bar graph level display down by the faders. I got spare meter boards now and Im populating the meter bridge above those strips with the full sized meters. Im going to have to revisit the P/S to make sure Im not going above its capabilities.

Let me know how I can help point you in the right direction! Oh and carefully pull an input strip and see if you have the optional transformer coupling. The transformers if equipped are small rectangular metal housing mounted to the circuit board right by the input output connectors.
 
Hey there mdainsd;

Wow, GREAT info, thanks.

mdainsd said:
First off familiarize yourself with the site: ddaconsoles.com The manuals are there as well as the schematics and technical information. All in PDFs and downloadable.
Click to expand...

Yes, been there and DLed everything pertinent. Already building a nice stash of DDA info.

mdainsd said:
Are you sure about the line inputs being XLR? Mine are all TRS for line inputs. Tip hot, ring cold sleeve ground. All +4dBu. The only XLRs on the input strips are "mic in".

Patchbays are the way to go as far as I am concerned.
Click to expand...

Back of my DDA Q (not Q II) is all XLRs for both mic & line inputs, then 1/4" TRS for Dir Outs, & one each for Send / Return. Now to begin designing and building a patchbay!

mdainsd said:
I am not familiar with the Alesis. Are the line ins and outs all balanced and at +4dBu?
Click to expand...

Yes, the HD24XR is +4 TRS (X 24 In & Out, so 48 all together) as well as 8 X ADAT Optical digital I/O for all 24 channels. Pretty decent converters, too.

mdainsd said:
The power supply is indeed where you should start. All that dust and yuck shortens power supply life. Clean it out good good. Put a scope on the supplies using AC coupling and high gain and check for ripple or noise. This is how you determine the health of the capacitors in the P/S.
There are "replacement" supplies around, but I have found nothing lacking in the factory ones. Mine console is a 40X8X3(2) so there is more load on the supply than your 24 wide is demanding.
Click to expand...

My supply is nicely cleaned now and I'll put a scope on it as soon as I re-assemble the console so that I can load it properly (no use testing with no load on it).

mdainsd said:
I found the spares on ebay. I did a subscribed search so Id get an email alert when anything "DDA QII" got listed.
Click to expand...

BRILLIANT~! Am going to set up alerts now.

mdainsd said:
Let me know how I can help point you in the right direction! Oh and carefully pull an input strip and see if you have the optional transformer coupling. The transformers if equipped are small rectangular metal housing mounted to the circuit board right by the input output connectors.
Click to expand...

Haha, "carefully pull an input strip"... well, ALL of my modules are already out of the frame (had to do this to get board upstairs. GF assisting) and now residing in four boxes (sad to see) with the frame leaned up on edge in my room as I get organized here.

Mine does not seem to have the transformer option as none of the strips have anything looking like a transformer anywhere on the cards. Oh, well... will have to use my outboard pres for that kind of color! ;-)

Thanks again for the assist. Perhaps I'll try to shoot some pictures and post them when I can get some made (boxed modules, all stacked in my room where I can barely get to them as I clean and organize... arrggh.)

SC
 
LOL. Commissioning a console like these into a home studio is not for the faint of heart! I had mine pretty much all in , now its out again for mods.....

When you start putting the strips back in do it carefully. I bent one of the pins on one of the strip connectors, just take your time. Its easy at first because you can see the mating action when you first start inserting strips. But as the opening narrows to nothing it has to be all by feel.
 
Yeah, thanks for the caution on bent pins.
Was playing with 2 (much smaller) Soundcraft 200 boards (one 200B and one 200SR) and had input modules out to inspect and check the differences. When trying to replace one of the modules, the connector was just NOT going in.
Smart enough (now, finally) to know not to force it, got out my magnifying glass and looked very carefully at the connector, and finding that I had nudged one of the pins ever so slightly on removal (as I canted the connector slightly sideways back and forth to loosen it).
DOH, not good, but a very gentle slight straightening alignment of that one bent pin had the connector slide in smoothly. Wheew.
Lesson learned was that to remove connectors, even though it may be tempting to wiggle a particularly stuck one a little side to side to loosen it, much better to get good leverage and pull it straight out or to get a small tool in there to pry it loose, again, only using force in the one direction (straight out).

For me, mods may come much (much) later in the game. This is only a hobby (so far) and so I'm going to bet that the sound of the stock DDA Q will be just fine from what I have heard and read.
Still curious about the sonic quality differences between my DDA Q and my very similar Soundcraft Delta 8 are. Almost same era build dates (early '90's?) and design philosophy?
I discovered that Dave Dearden (DDA) did a stint with Soundcraft as well as work with many others (Manley, MCI, etc.?), and so perhaps the DDA is a somewhat more "evolved" concept of console than the more stodgy (haha) and traditional Soundcraft offerings.

May be hard to find anyone who has experience with both of these consoles. Perhaps that may be me eventually, save that I do not have the space for an A & B room (yet?)~!

SC
 
New DDA S Series Owner

mdainsd said:
I am probably the only one on this forum that runs a DDA. Mine is a QII. There are two versions, you can read the manuals for them online by searching, I think that Midas has all that information.
Neither is a truly studio recording type board, mainly because of lack of busses. But they are very very flexible. I use the direct outs via patch bay to the tape machine and tape machine back into line in via a patch bay. I rarely have to patch it any other way but its a snap to do.

The pluses -
Transformer coupled all strips (check though as this was an option)
+4dB in and out (everything), no level shifters required.
All inputs and outputs fully balanced including, matrix, foldback, inserts and returns.
Mine is equipped with LCR (left, right, center) output modules and metering.
There were many options available, stereo input modules, VCA input modules.
AWESOME EQ, (sweepable parametric), as good as anything out there IMHO.
Reliable (only issue I have ever had after installing it was a bent pin on an input module, my fault).
Built like a tank.

Minus -
Parts are very hard to find at least here in the states, but fortunately all the electronic components are readily available. However I did just score on a ton of spares, out of Israel of all places, basically just for shipping charges. Just got to keep your eyes open.

After I figured out how to make it work in my recording studio I am very glad I did. Using the matrices, I can send to the musicians 6 custom stereo mixes. With over 1,600 LEDS it sure is purdy in a dimly lit studio, LOL.

Unfortunately I have no experience with the other, so we will have to wait for someone else to chime in.

The only way that board would come out of my studio is if something like a vintage Neve dropped into my lap. I love it.
Click to expand...

Great to hear about DDA consoles. I just bought & installed a vintage S Series 16 channel version. Have had my own home studio for the past 20 years and have owned many "lower level" Mixing desks, to include some highly touted ones which ultimately turned out to be no better than a Mackie! I am all analog, except for the final CD mix goint to a Masterlink. I LOVE my DDA; it has almost a 3d sound to it; unlike any of my other mixers (which I am now going to donate to a local church). Thamk you Dasvid Dearden and Mr. Davis for creating an amazing machine!
 
Great to hear! I'd put mine up against any board for sonics, low noise, sound of the EQ or any other parameter.
The build quality of the boards if absolutely first rate. The whole console is a tank for that matter.
 
DDA Goodnes!

mdainsd said:
Great to hear! I'd put mine up against any board for sonics, low noise, sound of the EQ or any other parameter.
The build quality of the boards if absolutely first rate. The whole console is a tank for that matter.
Click to expand...


Agree, and I might add that my S series sounds very three-dimensional as opposed to how my APB Dynasonics and Yamaha RM800 sounded........not to mewntion how realistic all instruments sound in the mix! If all goes well, I'm upgrading to a more pro DDA next year........
 
Cool! There are models that are aimed squarely at multitrack recording (24buss), Im sorry but I dont remember the series letter. ...But, the crazy flexibility in routing, auxs, matrixi, sends et al makes it quite easy to use one that wasnt specifically done for multitracking in a studio.
 
Guys.....just found out another great advantage of a real board.....I have put a few outboard EQs, compressors, & "sonic maximizers" on the inserts of my DDA S Series....and it all sounds amazing! With the other desks I had, anything I inserted into it sounded like ass......I should have bought this desk many years ago....would have saved me much frustration & heartache!
 
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