dark star - grateful dead cover by fleetmiser (fat_fleet & heatmiser)

[heatmiser]

Greetings,

If you happen to have a spare 11+ minutes, please check out this track that fat_fleet and I have put together off an on over the course of the last month or so.

This is a track that is revered by fans, but at the same time probably represents all that non-fans most dislike about the band.

It was a blast working with fat_fleet on this and he wound up doing the majority of the performing, while I handled the mixing part with his input. This has by far more tracks and sub-mixes and all that stuff than I've ever worked with before, so it was as challenging for me as it was fun. Originally, we were going for an authentic, live, circa 1969-1970 kind of sound, but we ultimately got away from that a bit with effects processing and panning and whatnot. Still, this is probably one of the more authentic sounding covers I've been involved in.

I seriously doubt I'd remix it at this point, but would still appreciate any feedback for future consideration.

fat_fleet: drums, rhythm guitar, lead vocals, feedback, hand percussion, effects
me: mixing, lead guitar, background vocals, creepy guitars, hand percussion, effects

Streaming Soundclick mp3 link:

SoundClick artist: kingseesar - dark star

Stream/download dropbox WAV link:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/59924554/dark%20star.wav

[Mod Edit: Inserting new link]

here's a 320 mp3 dropbox link for anyone who might be interested:

Thanks,
Pete

 

[bouldersoundguy]

What I've heard so far sounds good. The guitar tone seems pretty much on target. About the only thing I can say is I'd thin out the vocals a bit and perhaps back them into the mix a little more. There seems to be a bit more proximity effect than I recall hearing on the originals. Maybe the same with the snare, which sounds a bit too modern and present.

But if I wanted to hear the original I would just dig out the CD and play it, so being different is a good thing.

 

[TripleM]

I was never a Dead fan, and I haven't heard the song.

But I liked the guitar/bass/vocal sound. I thought that was all real good. The drums, especially the overheads, sounded great. OK the bass might be a little rumble-y.

Some of the sound effects get a little hard on the ears in the 4 - 5 minute range.

 

[heatmiser]

What I've heard so far sounds good. The guitar tone seems pretty much on target. About the only thing I can say is I'd thin out the vocals a bit and perhaps back them into the mix a little more. There seems to be a bit more proximity effect than I recall hearing on the originals. Maybe the same with the snare, which sounds a bit too modern and present.

But if I wanted to hear the original I would just dig out the CD and play it, so being different is a good thing.

Thanks boulder...I know it's asking a lot for people to sit through this, so I really appreciate you getting through at least some of it.

We certainly didn't try to recreate any specific version, but more tried to capture the spirit of that era of performances.

Agreed on the vocals and snare having a different, maybe more modern tone to them than some of the rest of the sounds. fat_fleet asking me to bring down the vocals a bit too, but I declined . I may still give the mix another whirl...

I was never a Dead fan, and I haven't heard the song.

But I liked the guitar/bass/vocal sound. I thought that was all real good. The drums, especially the overheads, sounded great. OK the bass might be a little rumble-y.

Some of the sound effects get a little hard on the ears in the 4 - 5 minute range.

Yeah, I'd have been surprised if you'd heard this before unless you were a fan, which I think I knew you weren't from previous posts...

Thanks for listening anyway though MMM. I think fat_fleet did a great job with the drums. He gave me a stereo mix, but I did compress it quite a bit and did some EQ as well to get it to fit better. I really struggled with the bass guitar on this one. It sounded fine solo'd, but didn't play nice with the drums and guitars. This was the best compromise so far after many different settings and levels and whatnot.

Sorry about the ear-splitting feedback...I did some narrow but deep cuts in the high mids to tame any grating qualities there and to get it to match the rest of the piece, but I could perhaps have gone farther with that. I wanted that part to be somewhat difficult to listen to though I think...

 

[heatmiser]

Ok, I know what you're all thinking, "...but heatmiser, you promised over 11 minutes of content, and this Soundclick link cuts off at 10:55! I want the full version!"

Yes, I now realize that soundclick chopped off the ending. Apparently even at 128 kbs, this track exceeded their file size limit. So, I've added a dropbox link to the complete WAV version. It should stream for you in quicktime or something similar, or you may download it if you wish, although it's probably like 700,000 MB or something.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/59924554/dark%20star.wav

 

[robgreen]

Hey, this was a fun listen - well done both of youse. I hadn't heard the song before, and in fact I don't really know any Grateful Dead aside from previous covers on here and a few off the American Beauty lp.

My computer has packed in recently (my guitar amp has also just given up the ghost, leaving me currently in recording limbo ), so I had to listen via headphones plugged into my phone and therefore couldn't really give any mix feedback even if you were looking to re-visit. It's really cool how I can hear both of your distinct styles coming together though and I can't even begin to work out how you would coordinate something this long and loose via email...

My phone would only let me play the dropbox link after downloading - after noticing it was 111mb though, I cancelled that and settled for the 10.55min radio edit on soundclick. I quite liked the abrupt ending, it felt like you had both just played until your recording equipment eventually gave up on you.

 

[fat_fleet]

I was never a Dead fan, and I haven't heard the song.

But I liked the guitar/bass/vocal sound. I thought that was all real good. The drums, especially the overheads, sounded great. OK the bass might be a little rumble-y.

Some of the sound effects get a little hard on the ears in the 4 - 5 minute range.

Hey Triple M- thanks for listening and commenting about the drums....that feels good as I'm still pretty new to recording them. When I bounced em to a stereo track, I really just meant for heat to be able to play over them and didn't think that would end up being the final mix but I guess it ended up sounding decent enough with the other instruments.

Hey, this was a fun listen - well done both of youse. I hadn't heard the song before, and in fact I don't really know any Grateful Dead aside from previous covers on here and a few off the American Beauty lp.

My computer has packed in recently (my guitar amp has also just given up the ghost, leaving me currently in recording limbo ), so I had to listen via headphones plugged into my phone and therefore couldn't really give any mix feedback even if you were looking to re-visit. It's really cool how I can hear both of your distinct styles coming together though and I can't even begin to work out how you would coordinate something this long and loose via email...

My phone would only let me play the dropbox link after downloading - after noticing it was 111mb though, I cancelled that and settled for the 10.55min radio edit on soundclick. I quite liked the abrupt ending, it felt like you had both just played until your recording equipment eventually gave up on you.

Hey Rob- Thanks for checking it out! This was my first long distance collab and it was just super fun to plan out and do...and easier than I thought it would be. The basic tracks and the structure came together really fast and heat did a great job gluing it all together. Looking forward to hearing new stuff from you as well, get that amp fixed asap!

 

[robgreen]

Hey Triple M- thanks for listening and commenting about the drums....that feels good as I'm still pretty new to recording them. When I bounced em to a stereo track, I really just meant for heat to be able to play over them and didn't think that would end up being the final mix but I guess it ended up sounding decent enough with the other instruments.



Hey Rob- Thanks for checking it out! This was my first long distance collab and it was just super fun to plan out and do...and easier than I thought it would be. The basic tracks and the structure came together really fast and heat did a great job gluing it all together. Looking forward to hearing new stuff from you as well, get that amp fixed asap!

Excellent, thanks for the explanation. Similarly, we were looking at a huge artwork in Manchester gallery at the weekend and I thought 'where the hell do you make the beginning point?' Fortunately, the artist was in the gallery to find out - just as you were.

Are you a Godspeed You Black Emperor fan by the way FF? It struck me that you might be, and if you weren't that you should be (despite the terrible name). I just heard out of the blue that they've got a new album out despite having seemingly disbanded about 10 years ago. Excellent band.

 

[fat_fleet]

Are you a Godspeed You Black Emperor fan by the way FF? It struck me that you might be, and if you weren't that you should be (despite the terrible name). I just heard out of the blue that they've got a new album out despite having seemingly disbanded about 10 years ago. Excellent band.

I have one GY!BE album and like what I've heard, but I'm far more familiar with Efrim's other band A Silver Mt. Zion...I like them a lot.
If you like that slow cinematic stuff Rob, the last couple albums from the drone band Earth have been heading in that direction...well worth checking out.

 

[robgreen]

I have one GY!BE album and like what I've heard, but I'm far more familiar with Efrim's other band A Silver Mt. Zion...I like them a lot.
If you like that slow cinematic stuff Rob, the last couple albums from the drone band Earth have been heading in that direction...well worth checking out.

Funnily enough I was given an Earth album (Hex I think) by a mate who had been mistakenly sent two copies from Amazon - or maybe they had just initially overestimated their drone order and were trying to get shut. I quite liked it, but it's a bit one paced over the course of an album for me - I thought it was crying out for a change of tempo/texture or just a phrase that ended with something other than a ringing reverby guitar every now and then.

I like Silver Mt Zion as well, and I've been lucky enough to see both them and Godspeed live - they both put on a great set. On balance, I think I prefer GYBE, as some of the SMZ lyrics are a bit too cringey student politicsy. I get mildly embarrassed if anyone overhears me listening to them when they start going on about 'smashing the barricades' etc.

Anyway, I'll stop hijacking your thread now

 

[Greg_L]

represents all that non-fans most dislike about the band.

Yes, this. ^^^^^^

I am not a fan of the Grateful Dead. My kind of music strived to put a stop to this kind of music.

But anyway, I made it through all 11 minutes. I don't even know what to say. It's very long! (That's what she said)

It's a pretty good mix. I know you don't need a modern kick sound for this song, but there's like no kick at all. No matter. All of the parts are performed very well. It does sound like a live jam band pretentiously dicking around for 11 minutes. Lol. Yall did a fantastic job making it all work as a collab. I know collabs can be difficult, but yall knocked this one out of the park. Well done.

 

[Obi-Wan zenabI]

The vox are too far forward for the era. It does sound like a specific recording that I've listened to a lot. I'll have to look at my vinyl collection to remember which one.

There is something odd about the timing of the hand percussion and the organ part. I think they should be more on the front edge of the beat. Honestly, if you just moved the whole waveform forward a bit it would make more sense to my ear.

really enjoying the space segment. You should remix it for 5.1-- some of the '60's shows were apparently done in quadrophonic...

my collection:

 

[heatmiser]

Yes, this. ^^^^^^

I am not a fan of the Grateful Dead. My kind of music strived to put a stop to this kind of music.

But anyway, I made it through all 11 minutes. I don't even know what to say. It's very long! (That's what she said)

It's a pretty good mix. I know you don't need a modern kick sound for this song, but there's like no kick at all. No matter. All of the parts are performed very well. It does sound like a live jam band pretentiously dicking around for 11 minutes. Lol. Yall did a fantastic job making it all work as a collab. I know collabs can be difficult, but yall knocked this one out of the park. Well done.

Greg!!!!!!!

Man, I was hoping to slip this one in before you returned from your hiatus. I know how much you hate jammy jam band jams. Thanks for checking it out though and for indulging us.

Good to have you back. This place was like a mortuary while you were gone.

The vox are too far forward for the era. It does sound like a specific recording that I've listened to a lot. I'll have to look at my vinyl collection to remember which one.

There is something odd about the timing of the hand percussion and the organ part. I think they should be more on the front edge of the beat. Honestly, if you just moved the whole waveform forward a bit it would make more sense to my ear.

really enjoying the space segment. You should remix it for 5.1-- some of the '60's shows were apparently done in quadrophonic...

my collection:

Hey Obi-Wan, I haven't seen you around in ages. Thanks for checking it out...nice pic.

We both listened to 2/13/70 for some inspiration at the start, and I know I was listening to the Live Dead version a lot leading up to this (my fav), but we tried not to copy anything in particular.

Yeah, the intro is a little awkward. I just got used to it and now it sounds right after repeated listenings. It came together oddly as initially, FF played drums throughout, but then we muted them and added the shakers, guiro & keys to more closely mirror the band's live arrangements and to add a little variety to what could otherwise have been a very homogenous piece.

 

[Chili]

Wow, what a collab. I know how hard it is to put something like this together and you guys nailed it. I think you really captured the essence of the period; I can almost smell the pot!!!

You guys hit your goal with the mix and arrangement. You've got the live performance but with a clean studio recording. So, maybe I'm gonna have to download the 110 meg file for safe keeping.

Obi, what a great pic. You've got my favorite Dead album in there; Reckoning!!!

 

[kcearl]

The only GD stuff Ive ever heard is the stuff you cover heat....this sounded great to me, I like flat's sound as well, heard most of his songs in here


the beginning reminds me of an early 90's grunge/pop hit...cant remember its name, nice guitar tone all through



yeah it meanders a bit....thought I was listening to early floyd at times...I enjoy it most when its all in full swing



mix sounds fine to me, performance is good too....weird song though, ive still got two minutes to go!

 

[kcearl]

Wow, what a collab. I know how hard it is to put something like this together and you guys nailed it. I think you really captured the essence of the period; I can almost smell the pot!!!

You guys hit your goal with the mix and arrangement. You've got the live performance but with a clean studio recording. So, maybe I'm gonna have to download the 110 meg file for safe keeping.

Obi, what a great pic. You've got my favorite Dead album in there; Reckoning!!!

word lol

 

[heatmiser]

Hey, this was a fun listen - well done both of youse. I hadn't heard the song before, and in fact I don't really know any Grateful Dead aside from previous covers on here and a few off the American Beauty lp.

My computer has packed in recently (my guitar amp has also just given up the ghost, leaving me currently in recording limbo ), so I had to listen via headphones plugged into my phone and therefore couldn't really give any mix feedback even if you were looking to re-visit. It's really cool how I can hear both of your distinct styles coming together though and I can't even begin to work out how you would coordinate something this long and loose via email...

My phone would only let me play the dropbox link after downloading - after noticing it was 111mb though, I cancelled that and settled for the 10.55min radio edit on soundclick. I quite liked the abrupt ending, it felt like you had both just played until your recording equipment eventually gave up on you.

Sorry about your amp rob. Mine shit the bed during the recording of this track. When I turn it on now there's a loud hum that will not go away . I too am in limbo...

So, 111MB is pretty steep I guess - not the 700,000 I estimated, but still...I may add a dropbox link to a higher quality mp3 of the complete track. The ending is epic!

Not really.

Thanks for listening and I hope you get your gear sorted out soon!

Wow, what a collab. I know how hard it is to put something like this together and you guys nailed it. I think you really captured the essence of the period; I can almost smell the pot!!!

You guys hit your goal with the mix and arrangement. You've got the live performance but with a clean studio recording. So, maybe I'm gonna have to download the 110 meg file for safe keeping.

Obi, what a great pic. You've got my favorite Dead album in there; Reckoning!!!

Hey Chili - Sadly I think that's just resin you're smelling. I ran out of weed very early in this process, but if you scrape the inside of the pipe, you can...uh, never mind.

I certainly enjoyed Althea with you a while back. This was perhaps more difficult with all of the parts and the length and all...FF did most of it though, so that made it easier . I'm glad you enjoyed it!

The only GD stuff Ive ever heard is the stuff you cover heat....this sounded great to me, I like flat's sound as well, heard most of his songs in here

the beginning reminds me of an early 90's grunge/pop hit...cant remember its name, nice guitar tone all through

yeah it meanders a bit....thought I was listening to early floyd at times...I enjoy it most when its all in full swing

mix sounds fine to me, performance is good too....weird song though, ive still got two minutes to go!

Meanders...yeah. Man, this is like a stripped down super-focused version compared to the real thing. Guaranteed 20-45 minutes live. Usually a lot darker with more atonal parts and more variation. This is actually condensed believe it or not. Yes, it's a very weird song, but so much a part of my young adulthood that it seems normal now. This is what my high school friends and I would listen to on trips often. It could get unsettling, but mostly in a good way .

Thanks for listening Keith!

 

[dobro]

The tempo's more relaxed than the original, but that's kinda cool.

What I like: the solo guitar sound is a lovely nod in the direction of the original; the vocal - nice sound, nice delivery. I also like the fact that someone would have the balls to cover this one in the first place (it's not the sort of tune you hear in the Tiki Lounge very often, right?). It's a good cover too - you made parts of it your own - that riffing that comes in around 7.00, for instance.

Things to think about: the solo guitar and the rhythm guitar sound like they're in different spaces - the rhythm's way forward, and the solo's way back. In terms of everything that's happening in the whole mix, it's the rhythm guitar that sounds out of context, so... dunno, but the first thing I'd try on it is some reverb on the rhythm guitar. I might cut the amount of verb on the delicious backing vocals at the end, too. Rein 'em in a bit so they sound more like they're part of the same mix space.

Question: I'm wondering why you didn't have drums on this one from the get go.

 

[heatmiser]

The tempo's more relaxed than the original, but that's kinda cool.

What I like: the solo guitar sound is a lovely nod in the direction of the original; the vocal - nice sound, nice delivery. I also like the fact that someone would have the balls to cover this one in the first place (it's not the sort of tune you hear in the Tiki Lounge very often, right?). It's a good cover too - you made parts of it your own - that riffing that comes in around 7.00, for instance.

Things to think about: the solo guitar and the rhythm guitar sound like they're in different spaces - the rhythm's way forward, and the solo's way back. In terms of everything that's happening in the whole mix, it's the rhythm guitar that sounds out of context, so... dunno, but the first thing I'd try on it is some reverb on the rhythm guitar. I might cut the amount of verb on the delicious backing vocals at the end, too. Rein 'em in a bit so they sound more like they're part of the same mix space.

Great stuff - thanks dobro! Yes, I was very happy with fat_fleet's vocals. Originally, I was supposed to sing it, but could only manage an octave lower, so it came off as some kind of zombie-joke version. I was really relieved when he took over. He did send me some pretty reverberated vox though, and I think I tried to match that with my BGVs, but you're right, it probably is too much overall. Certainly not live sounding at all.

Much as we'd love to claim credit for the 7:00 part, that was pretty much lifted from 2/13/70 @ fillmore east. We wanted a "happy jam" in there somewhere, and that particular bit was already familiar to both of us, so...

I'm torn on the 2 guitar parts though. I hear what you're saying, and I assume you're referring to amounts of verb rather than volume levels ('cause I think the lead is pretty loud myself), but I always heard bobby as sounding kind of dry and jerry having this big verb, even when listening to audience tapes of them in an auditorium somewhere where you'd think it'd all even out. I did try it with more verb on the rhythm guitar, but it seemed less focused, so I took it back.

Hmmm...maybe I will remix this at some point? We've gotten some good ideas here...

Question: I'm wondering why you didn't have drums on this one from the get go.

fat_fleet did play drums throughout and it sounded really good. More rocking certainly. I noticed though that all of the live 1969-1970 versions I heard had no drums until after the first verse - just shakers and guiros and stuff. Just when I was thinking that, FF suggested I mute his drums for the first verse which I did. Then we added the hand percussion. I think it's a little more authentic that way, plus I thought it helped it build by not revealing all the elements right out of the gate, you know?

Thanks again !

 

[fat_fleet]

I am not a fan of the Grateful Dead. My kind of music strived to put a stop to this kind of music.

But anyway, I made it through all 11 minutes. I don't even know what to say. It's very long! (That's what she said)

It's a pretty good mix. I know you don't need a modern kick sound for this song, but there's like no kick at all. No matter. All of the parts are performed very well. It does sound like a live jam band pretentiously dicking around for 11 minutes. Lol. Yall did a fantastic job making it all work as a collab. I know collabs can be difficult, but yall knocked this one out of the park. Well done.

Hey dude welcome back! How was your bid? I hear prison changes a man.
Thanks for listening, I think the pretentious jam band dicking around was pretty much what we were going for.
Yeah- like heat said 11 minutes is actually pretty short for this tune. I guess you'll probably sit out my 45-minute Miles Davis tribute if I ever post it.

my collection:

Great pic Obi! For sure some of those album covers are among the most iconic of the 70s. When I was first discovering this stuff I remember someone pointing out to me all the secret messages, like the "We Ate The Acid" in the Aoxomoxoa cover, and the "Ugly Rumous" in the cover for Mars Hotel. And the Kelley/Mouse artwork on Europe '72 is classic stuff.

You guys hit your goal with the mix and arrangement. You've got the live performance but with a clean studio recording.

Yeah you know, the goal kind of changed as we went along. I think we kind of wanted to do something more classic at first but I, at least, found it hard to exactly replicate their styles and eventually it took on more of an individual flavor... Thanks for listening though. I'm glad a few folks checked it out and it didn't remain a skeleton in the closet (if you will). Dug you and heat's Althea too!