Could anyone master this for me?

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heartbeatsuk

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Hi

I know this is my first post but I was wondering if anyone could master my cover of nine crimes by damien rice for me? here is the link http://www.sendspace.com/file/pmr46r
I know my skill is not great but i am very interested in the difference of quality a good master can do

can anyone help me?
 
Hi

I know this is my first post but I was wondering if anyone could master my cover of nine crimes by damien rice for me? here is the link http://www.sendspace.com/file/pmr46r
I know my skill is not great but i am very interested in the difference of quality a good master can do

can anyone help me?

It would be better if you sent a wave file through an FTP format or mail a DATA CD with the WAV or WDM file you want mastered. The download you are asking to be mastered, what format is it? Have you checked it for viruses after post?
 
Yeah...I'm not downloading a 107 meg zip file....this is supposed to be a stereo wav zipped up? Must be a long song although I don't think wav files compress much....but yeah, I would worry about a virus with a (too) BIG download in a zip format, so you don't know what's inside, from an unknown entity.

Enter at your own risk.
 
Heartbeat...you would probably have more luck if you posted a wav file instead of a zip. Don't know how much mastering help you are going to get, but people would be more inclined to download a wav versus a zip file that could just be virus hell.

You'd probably get some people to listen anyways if it was a wav and get some pointers for improving the mix.
 
I downloaded it... but there's nothing to master, it's not even mixed - it's just five or six indivdual tracks in a zip file.
 
Ha!!! I love it!!! Finally the whole forum gets to deal with what I have to deal with week after week after week!

(That is, people that don't know what "mastering" means...)
 
Ha!!! I love it!!! Finally the whole forum gets to deal with what I have to deal with week after week after week!

(That is, people that don't know what "mastering" means...)
Shouldn't you be happy it's the way it is? If the country knew all the ins and outs of mastering your job would be relatively worthless. I work a help desks help desk and ignorance is my job security.
 
I downloaded it... but there's nothing to master, it's not even mixed - it's just five or six indivdual tracks in a zip file.

He has a toal two posts on the HR forums!!!
There's one in the mixing section asking if anyone would mix this song for him...
...and he has this second post here asking if anyone would master it for him!!! :D


I guess he thinks you can do both things at the same time and appart from each other...then somehow bring the mixed and mastered versions together into one final product.

:laughings:
 
Shouldn't you be happy it's the way it is? If the country knew all the ins and outs of mastering your job would be relatively worthless. I work a help desks help desk and ignorance is my job security.
What I'm talking about is people (so far, 100% are rappers & hip-hop - don't understand why) that will send in projects "for mastering" and they end up sending in raw tracks. Sometimes several, sometimes dozens.

Then I have to make the "Ummm... This is a mastering facility" phone calls (which is basically telling them that it isn't mixing), which pretty much all end up the same way, refund payments, reschedule sessions (giant pain in the ass right there), etc., etc.

Giant time & money waster.
 
What I'm talking about is people (so far, 100% are rappers & hip-hop - don't understand why) that will send in projects "for mastering" and they end up sending in raw tracks. Sometimes several, sometimes dozens.

Then I have to make the "Ummm... This is a mastering facility" phone calls (which is basically telling them that it isn't mixing), which pretty much all end up the same way, refund payments, reschedule sessions (giant pain in the ass right there), etc., etc.

Giant time & money waster.
But still this is a great opportunity for business. There's obviously something missing on the front end of your advertising if people are sending you money for a service you don't offer and worse yet, you are depositing money prior to a contract, thus the refund.

That kind of reminds me of back a few decades ago when I was a Volkswagon doctor and the owner of the shop would be screening jobs to skim just the cream off the top. He'd be turning people away while I'm trying to expand the business. He'd be wanting to do less and less preparing to retire while I was trying to build a career. He killed the business and then sold it, retired and I was out a job. Good thing for me though as I changed careers for the better, marketing. :)

Instead of turning away the business wouldn't it be better to absorb it and subcontract if you don't want to do the mixing? They're already on your doorstep waving their hard earned cash at you saying help me help me and that's half the battle. Take that "This is a mastering facility" phone call" and turn it into something positive, it's a hot lead for business.

Even if you don't want the mixing business you need to be clear why you are taking their money before you deposit it to save you the headache of refunds. Why don't they know you don't mix? It's not a hard point to get across.
 
At least he's not asking if anyone wants to buy his beats!
 
a

Ok massive noob error, I didn't know the difference between mixing and mastering and now I know that they are completely different. I have made a seperate post in the mixing forum so could this one be deleted? sorry for the mistake
 
I changed careers for the better, marketing.

Instead of turning away the business wouldn't it be better to absorb it and subcontract if you don't want to do the mixing?
IMO,No. Although coming from a business background I can see how you would think that ; )

They're already on your doorstep waving their hard earned cash at you saying help me help me and that's half the battle. Take that "This is a mastering facility" phone call" and turn it into something positive, it's a hot lead for business.
This might be a better angle (from a business stand point), but if ones primary focus is mastering, taking the time to help and explain and then go about spending the time to complete the project will take away from your real passion...although, it's certainly not out of the question to develop working relationships that would benefit further down the road..
 
But still this is a great opportunity for business. There's obviously something missing on the front end of your advertising if people are sending you money for a service you don't offer and worse yet, you are depositing money prior to a contract, thus the refund.

(snip)

Instead of turning away the business wouldn't it be better to absorb it and subcontract if you don't want to do the mixing? They're already on your doorstep waving their hard earned cash at you saying help me help me and that's half the battle. Take that "This is a mastering facility" phone call" and turn it into something positive, it's a hot lead for business.
It's a great opportunity for wasting my time.

Point: I don't mix often, but I do. The book rate is still the book rate. I have some clients that are happy with that. Most people wouldn't be.

Point: I *do* try to send them somewhere...

Even if you don't want the mixing business you need to be clear why you are taking their money before you deposit it to save you the headache of refunds. Why don't they know you don't mix? It's not a hard point to get across.
This is like someone sending a deposit to a car repair shop to come by later and pick up groceries and wondering why the mechanic didn't tell the customer that he's not a grocery store.

Why don't they know I don't mix? I have no idea - Maybe because this is a mastering facility. If they don't understand the difference, it's not up to me to teach them (although the process is spelled out pretty clearly for anyone who actually reads the site). I have to wonder if bands come to studios to record and don't understand that the recordings need to be mixed at some point...

That said - The deposits are normally transfers of some sort (PayPal, usually). So I'm not typically out anything (except all the time it takes to administrate a new client) and when checks & money orders come in, now I basically go through all the motions before I make the deposit - just to make sure the client understands the difference between mixing and mastering (just typing that still makes my brain hurt).
 
I have to wonder if bands come to studios to record and don't understand that the recordings need to be mixed at some point...
Yes, they do.


Instead of turning away the business wouldn't it be better to absorb it and subcontract if you don't want to do the mixing? They're already on your doorstep waving their hard earned cash at you saying help me help me and that's half the battle. Take that "This is a mastering facility" phone call" and turn it into something positive, it's a hot lead for business.
That still doesn't get rid of the phone call explaining to them that, instead of $500, it will take $1500 to finish the project. It will be hard to not make that sound like an upsell ripoff to someone who simply doesn't understand the process.

As you know, all it takes is one ill-informed clown misunderstanding what you were telling him to badmouth your business and screw you out of potential clients. All for trying to accomodate someone and provide a service that is not the focus of your business, that you don't have the appropriate equipment for and puts you in the position of trying to master your own mixes on the same system that you mixed them on. Where is the 'win'?
 
This is why some of the more salient posts that define what mastering is, and what mastering isn't (see Fredrick's description in the Fala post) should be collated and stickied. Then you can refer the person to that thread with a quick:

"That's not really what you're looking for, here's what mastering is: [insert link] if you have any questions please ask."

At least you don't have to explain it every time that way.

---

As far as the business side of things, I suppose networking has it's benefits and drawbacks. The monetary difference between a mastering job, and a mixing+mastering job is likely significantly different. And I can see how that mght cause resentment if they think you're just trying to scam them. But most people who are willing to drop a chunk of cash on something like this are probably fairly willing to be given suggestions by those in the know. If not...their loss. But I know in the graphic design world, for example, that a lot of people have contracts with other artists to set up a system of payment for referred work. So if someone wants a website designed but I specialize in purely graphic work, I could refer them to a friend of mine who specializes in that and he'll pay me a small percentage of what he earns for the favor of the referral (I'm not a graphic designer myself, it's an example, I just have a lot of friends that do this). That might work in some cases for mastering/mixing houses.

I do, however, completely understand how the people who actually work in the field find it irritating that people ask for free "mastering" all the time. Unless it's clear that they just want someone to "%*!@ around with their music" as it was described elsewhere. Again...a description of how much a pro mastering job should actually cost, based on input from a few of the folks here that do it in the stickied post might be a really easy way to get the word out on the forum anyhow.
 
This is why some of the more salient posts that define what mastering is, and what mastering isn't (see Fredrick's description in the Fala post) should be collated and stickied. Then you can refer the person to that thread with a quick:

"That's not really what you're looking for, here's what mastering is: http://recording.org/content/381-waltz-mastering-studio-what-mastering.html if you have any questions please ask."
I put this together not to long ago, although, I've seen great descriptions from Tom and John that were a bit more concise.

WHAT IS MASTERING?
http://recording.org/content/381-waltz-mastering-studio-what-mastering.html

Mastering is one of the most important, sophisticated, and least understood of all audio crafts.

A good mastering process will give an albums mixes tonal and sonic balance, within and between themselves while at the same time adding level, continuity and maintaining the dynamic integrity intended.

Mastering is the final creative step in the record-making process, resulting in an equalized, leveled, and sequenced master that translates and is assembled and prepared professionally for replication, broadcast, and distribution.

When considering how much time, effort, and money has been put into a recording that is destined for release, as the final step, there is no substitute for using a professional mastering studio and an experienced mastering engineer. An ME offers a fresh and unbiased perspective in a purpose built, tuned room with the intention of having your music sound it's best at a professional sonic level.

One of the keys or sometimes the goal of mastering is to stay as transparent to the source as possible. This is one of the reasons that higher quality, very precise, and many times higher costing conversion and processing is involved in mastering. The processing and conversion picked to be used by the ME is chosen for the sonic finger print it will leave or not leave on the final master.

It is important with regard to the music's specific genre that the masters translate greatly when played on any and every playback systems available.

In mastering, it is very important that attention be paid to every detail...

*Quote from Motown Engineer Bob O:
Mastering is all about the presentation of the mix and the first impression it makes. It's where production intersects marketing.

The context of each song within the album is important as is translation between different listening environments. The overall tonality and volume level relative to the genre where the music will be marketed is also a major consideration.

The goal is to have a recording that will generate excellent word of mouth promotion and additional exposure as a result of people listening and liking what they hear.
"Bob Olhsson"

Do your songs need to be mastered?

Not all recorded music needs to be mastered. Songs that are recorded and meant as entertainment for friends and family can usually go the diy (do it yourself) route.

Music that is recorded with the intention of being broadcast, replicated, and distributed, whether it's for cd, vinyl, or digital download) is usually the best candidate for mastering.

Now a day's, with the way music technology has changed, more and more *CD's and recordings are being recorded and mixed in smaller rooms that do not offer optimal acoustics and monitoring. A good ME can help make up for some of these inaccuracies.

Is it a good idea to have the same person who mixed the music also master it?

While it is not unheard of, it is generally not ideal.

In most cases the person who mixes a project usually tracked it as well, most likely in the same control room with less than ideal acoustics on near field monitors. While near fields are great for making tracking and mixing decisions, a set of full range speakers in a treated room designed for make critical decisions is most often the best bet for mastering.

The reason for this is you want to use a system that is revealing to any inaccuracies that may have occurred in the mixing environment/process, hence a different room/environment and different set of ears.

Usually by the time an engineer is finished mixing a song or album, it is hard for them to step back and look at the bigger picture because they have been concentrating heavily on the nuances that make the mix work. A fresh set of ears in a new environment and a new outlook is always a good idea.

How affordable is mastering?
How much does it cost to get an album mastered?

Let's take a 10 - 12 song cd as an example:

There are basically 3 tiers.
1 - High profile engineers charge $1500 and up.
2 - Mid level pricing $450 to $1500
3 - Lower level pricing $250 to $450
Anything under $250 - enter at your own risk.

High profile mastering engineers: ie: Ted Jenson, Bob Ludwig, Doug Sax, Greg Calbi, Bernie Grundman, Brian Gardner have been mastering great sounding albums and hit records for many years and can easily command $2000-$3000 and up per album because of their proven track record. These are some of the very best mastering engineers in the world.

Mid level engineers are usually independent dedicated mastering engineer's who have purpose built mastering rooms who put out great work as well. Some of the engineers in this tier's work is comparable to the high profile guys but don't have the name recognition and high overhead.

Lower priced engineers, have many of the same qualities as the mid level guys, but cater more toward the indy musician and bands with tight budgets. Being able to find a good ME in this category is sometimes a bit more difficult because the good ones are booked a bit in advance and you are starting to get in to territory where you get what you pay for as far as trying to find an ME that does consistently good work.

Anyone charging under $250 - $300 per album is going to be a high risk. It could be someone with a computer with cracked plugins in their bedroom using the latest version of T-rax or someone just starting out with not a lot of experience under their belt, but you never know there might be that needle in the stack.

Advice for finding a competent mastering engineer

- Get a sample of their work.
- With the top guys this is fairly easy - look on the back of your favorite sounding cd's
If you can afford them try to book a month or 3 in advance - they are usually in high demand for good reason.

- Many mastering engineers will be happy to send you samples or have samples of their work on their web site.
- Many ME's will do a sample of one of your songs for you - something like the first couple minutes of the song so that you will know exactly what you will get.
- You can also find a great ME through recommendations
- Many ME's do work online now a days so it is fairly easy to have an album mastered by a reputable ME even if you live in the far corners of Siberia.
- Find a mastering engineer who you trust and has good communication skills, and someone who can deliver what your looking for.

Preparing mixes for mastering:

- Be confident that the mixes are the best that they can be
- Leave the project at whatever sample rate and bit depth that the project was mixed at
- Do not let any peaks of the mixes exceed -0 dB fs
- Make sure there is no brick wall limiting on the mixes
- Label the mix/data files clearly

Be sure to convey and explain to the ME the sound that you are looking for, sometimes examples of similar work are good to provide as well.
 
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