Correct Miking...

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Mindset

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I have to start knowing what's the BEST microphone to mic an instrument. And what's the best way to mic it. IE:

What's the best mic for a electric guitar, and how would I mic it properly.
What's the best mic for a Chello, and how would I mic it properly.

.....

Please only correct knowledgable answers. Not "any condenser mics" or "depends on blah blah blah"

Say it's in a perfect room enviorment for whatever instrument, in the perfect conditions etc.

Thanks a whole bunch Hopefully the answers helps out other people too
 
Mindset said:
I have to start knowing what's the BEST microphone to mic an instrument. And what's the best way to mic it. IE:
What's the best mic for a electric guitar, and how would I mic it properly.
What's the best mic for a Chello, and how would I mic it properly.

Please only correct knowledgable answers. Not "any condenser mics" or "depends on blah blah blah"
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It really does depend on other things besides the room-- for example with guitar amps-- how loud the amp is, if it's distorted, overdriven, or clean, and what kind of sound you're going for.
Standard for rock guitar amps has generally been a Shure Sm-57 (or other dyamics such as an SM-7, Audix I-5, various Sennheiser models, etc.) off-axis (from the speaker) close up to the grill. Some people swear by using a ribbon mic moved back a little bit from the grill (though I've read about some people using Royers right up there-- wouldn't do it if I could afford one!), and I've read about a neat trick where you use a dynamic together with the negative side of a figure 8 ribbon pointed at the back end of the amp in order to keep them in phase. If it's a lower volume amp situation, you could use any number of different mics. Just because something is standard doesn't mean that it's the only option.
Cellos and other bowed stringed instruments are often mic'ed with small diaphragm condensers (e.g. AT 4051, Neumann KM-184, any number of offerings from companies from Josephson, Schoeps to companies like Behringer, Nady), or Ribbon mics (e.g. offerings from Royer, AEA, Karma, Peluso, Nady, Shinybox, Cascade, etc.)
 
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Mindset said:
I have to start knowing what's the BEST microphone to mic an instrument. And what's the best way to mic it. IE:

What's the best mic for a electric guitar, and how would I mic it properly.
What's the best mic for a Chello, and how would I mic it properly.

Please only correct knowledgable answers. Not "any condenser mics" or "depends on blah blah blah"
Click to expand...
The most usual arrangement for miking an electric guitar is a Shure SM57, positioned about 1" from the speaker. Pointed at the center of the speaker cone for maximum highs; moved nearer the edge of the speaker cone for a more bassy sound. Sometimes, an additional mic (usually a large diaphragm condenser mic, like a Neumann U87) will be positioned about 3 or 4 feet away and blended with the Shure mic.

For cellos, the most commonly used mics would be a large ribbon mic (like an RCA 77DX or an AEA R84), positioned about 3 to 4 feet away, or a small diaphragm condenser mic (Neumann KM84, Shoeps CMC6/MK41, or a DPA), about the same distance away.

The above statements would be, "correct knowledgable answers".

The MOST "correct knowledgable answer" would be, "It depends.".
 
Unfortunately, the answer is probably "depends on blah blah blah"

The "best microphone" is purely subjective, and also depends largely on your signal chain, what amp you're mic'ing, the player, what sound you're looking for, etc. etc. etc.

How about this:

Put a dynamic mic right up on the speaker, start by aiming it at the center of the speaker. Move it out towards the edge in various directions until you get a sound you like.

Add a condenser 5-6 ft away to get some room and pan that away from the dynamic if that floats your boat.

Or you could put a ribbon up on the speaker...

Maybe add another dynamic on the back if it's an open-back combo amp.

If it's a 4x12 cab maybe put a condenser 4 ft back aimed at the center spot between the 4 speakers.

For an all-purpose dynamic, you probably can't go wrong with a 57...
 
vaultstudio said:
Add a condenser 5-6 ft away to get some room and pan that away from the dynamic if that floats your boat.


If it's a 4x12 cab maybe put a condenser 4 ft back aimed at the center spot between the 4 speakers.

...
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If the guitar is using a clean tone and the amp is in an acoustic treated room, I use a large condenser (at3035) about 4ft away in the center spot. The volume of the amp should be moderate letting the room help create your sound. I get really good results.

For a distorted guitar tone (modern) I tend to pull out the ol trusty 57 or a senn 421 dynamic mic and place it close the the speaker almost touching the grill cloth, pointing it in different positions (to taste) around the center cap area.

As for the cello. I have no experience. I would think a ribbon mic would be a good choice because the slightly lower freq. you would want to capture. I've seen folks position the mic one foot away or so with a ribbon.
 
gcapel said:
As for the cello. I have no experience. I would think a ribbon mic would be a good choice because the slightly lower freq. you would want to capture. I've seen folks position the mic one foot away or so with a ribbon.
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Cello is a very rich sounding instrument with lots of harmonic content. It needs a mic with good response throughout the spectrum to sound right. That said, it isn't something I would peg as requiring fast transient response like a ribbon or SDC would provide.

Experiment. IMHO, just about any mic placement I've tried (within reason) sounded fairly good. Of course, I never moved the mic more than about three feet out into the room (except for a rear mic, which is inherently farther away).

I've experimented with various setups, including a SP B3 in front and an AT2020 behind me to capture indirect sound. That sounded pretty good. I'm really liking the sound from an AT2020 and the B3 when used as a M-S stereo pair, though, from about 2-3 feet out and maybe a foot above the bridge. This requires a reasonably good sounding room, though. :)

YMMV. And, of course, if the cello doesn't sound good IRL, it won't sound good on the recording, so make sure your strings are decent and your player is competent. (I'm not....)
 
Thanks. I'll have to research on other types of mic's onto other different instruments also. I'm actually working with 5 different studios in the same building, each having it's own unique sound of course. But 2 of those studios are smaller rooms, and 1 is a av room, and the last is a really nice sounding room. Which would be the optimum studio to test all this stuff out. I don't know what kind of instruments they have for their selections, but I do know that they got A LOT of mic's, I don't know the exact list, but I do know lots of them are past the $10K mark, and all the way down to an AKG 3000 mic. Anyways, this is what the room enviornment looks like
studioa_3.jpg

The ceiling is like I'm guessing 20 feet to 25 feet high, with reflectors or whatever you call them on top, and then where the picture is taken at, is a low ceiling with a whole lot of um defusors (spelling?) are hanging vertically down from the ceiling.

and this being a picture of the control room
studioa_2x.jpg

So this would be the room where instruments would be played & mic'd etc...

Not visible in the sound room, is another room (like the isolation room shown) but on the other side of the room. BTW That's elton john's piano :eek: It's actually not as pretty as it looks in real life lol.

Anyways Thanks people, if you know of some other "tips" in micing different types of instruments, and what kind of mic would be best, please don't hesitate to let me know!
 
if you are recording in that place don't they have like.. a recording engineer or something... who may know a thing or 2 about how to mic stuff, and with what??

Or have they just turned you loose in there and said go for it...

seems odd to me, not that I'd ever ever have the chance to visit let alone record in anything like that place...

still you have a bunch more posts and little green squares than I do, so wtf would i know. :confused:
 
lol. I go to school at that place, that's Studio A. I would love to just pull an engineer who has nothing to do, and have him help me, but most of them are either teaching the class, or in a session. The teacher stated that the more versile I can be, the more chances that I can make it compared to regular other engineers who don't know it. He told me that like if a professional label came and wanted a project done in a certain time, in the best quality availible, they wouldn't want an engineer who has to stand around testing, to figure out which mic'ing tech, and which mic would work (like for hours or something), they would want someone who glances at the, say, chello, and me knowing the room, get a mic that has a bump on the low/midrange, and proceed to mic it in the perfect/near perfect space depending on where they are in the room, or moving them etc. SO I figure that I'll ask some of the people on here with experience :D and maybe some of the posts can help someone else (or I'll just compile a list together for a whole bunch of instruments).
 
Mindset said:
He told me that like if a professional label came and wanted a project done in a certain time, in the best quality availible, they wouldn't want an engineer who has to stand around testing, to figure out which mic'ing tech, and which mic would work (like for hours or something)...
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Your best bet is studying a thoughtful book on how to select mics and record different instruments. Get a subscription to Tape Op & Recording too, read it all even if it doesn't make sense at first. Then start recording every single project you can - whether you like the project or not. Micing a kick drum for a pop band is going to be an entirely different experience to micing a metal band. If you have even a modest home studio setup you can start recording folks and puting what you've learned in the books to practice.
 
That's true, I just started going to all these mic manufacturer's, and looking at the freq. range or whatever, and the spec's on the mic, and will be heading to the studio saturday, and testing out some of these mic's on different instruments. I looked at the spec's on my home mic (AKG Perception 200), and it has a high frequency bump on it, so I figure it could do well micing an instrument that also puts out more high's then lows. Is that correct? Of course the AKG Perception 200 is only a low-end mic, but like if I use the Neumann U87 which also has a high frequency bump at around 10K, would the recommended settings for say miking um say chimes (can't think of much instruments right now, or maybe a flute or violin, be a mic like that with the room like it is, using a figure 8 pick up at like 2 feet away? Or am I incorrect.... I'm just guessing if my logic is FAR off, or even close to being right..
 
Mindset.

May I suggest that you read the sticky at the very top of this forum, which discusses different mics, their polar patterns, and how to use them?
 
Trying to judge how good a mic will sound purely by looking at the specs is kind of like picking which woman you want a relationship with by looking at a list of their shoe sizes.
 
Mindset said:
. I looked at the spec's on my home mic (AKG Perception 200), and it has a high frequency bump on it, so I figure it could do well micing an instrument that also puts out more high's then lows. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, as you might end up exaggerating your highs. What the frequency chart is useful for is checking that, for example, if you have to record something with a lot of low or high end, the microphone is capable of recording the required frequency range relative to it's total coverage.

For acoustic instruments I would suggest getting as neutral a mic as possible (for the low end, the CAD M177 or M179 springs to mind) and make sure the source is sounding good, rather than trying to find a mic that 'improves' the source. You will still need to experiment a bit with placement - and bear in mind that your player hears things very differently from their audience.

Most engineers I have worked have spent considerable time either studying, practicing or both to develop their skills. They didn't simply post on a bbs and get the answers they want. I notice that Studio Buddy software contains the line 'A pro engineer will make a better recording with a 4-track Portastudio than an inexperienced engineer will make with the equipment found in a $2,000,000, world-class studio'.
 
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