Copyright Confusion...

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Dark Fader

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Let me excuse myself for the total lack of knowledge that will follow this sentence. Could someone please explain the details of copyrighting a song to me? All I want to do is to make it illegal for someone else to steal my song. Some of these songs my not have words, also. Can I just write Copyrigh 2000 Matt Good on it?
Thank you for your patience with me.
 
Sorry about some of that last entry... I jsut read some more of the stuff of the other topics here, and copyright is starting to become clearer. I still am confusied about registering the copyright.... I read in a book once that if you make a hard copy of a song you wrote and write copyright on it, it's copyrighted, but jsut not registered. That's whats causing the confusion... I don't need super-firm legal ownership of my songs, no one wants to snatch them yet, I just want to scare anyone away from thinking about it. Again, thanks so much, I hope this reply cleared things up a bit.
 
You're right - copyright is implicit in a work as soon as it is created. The problem is that you've got to prove it, and that's where the registering of copyright comes in. It costs money (doesn't everything) to register your work with the appropriate agency, but that will give you much firmer legal ground to stand on if you are ever challenged. If you want to protect your works, you really should register.

- gaffa
 
DF,

Gaffa's got it pretty-much right. You should put (C) 200x Your Name on anything with your material. You should register your material with the US Office of Copyrights. It's currently $30 for each registration. You CAN register multiple works/songs in one application and pay only $30. This is called a "compilation". So on the form call the title "Matt Good Compilation X" or something like that.

There are two forms of copyright registration: Form PA and Form SR. Fill out form PA, if you're just protecting your work and don't plan to release that particular recorded version of the material to the public (for sale, lease, gift, etc). Fill out the Form SR if you will sell that particular version of the songs.

You'll need to send in copies of the printed song lyrics for both forms. With Form PA you'll need to send in one cassette/CD of the material that you're copywriting. With Form SR, you'll need to send in two copies of the material in the Form that you'll sell it in (i.e. the completed recording in its printed case and shell with artwork, etc).

So the long and the short of it is: if you just want to catalog your songs, put them on a tape, type the lyrics and send Form PA to the US Office of Copyrights. When you have the final version that you are releasing on a CD project, fill out Form SR and send in the completed version the US Office of Copyrights. This way, your material is protected and registered while you're still working it out in the studio and the sound recording will be protected. Hope this helps.

Rev E
 
The cheap way is to write your lyrics/tab/chords down in sheet form and/or record the track if possible and mail it to yourself. DO NOT OPEN ONCE RECIEVED. You have copyright of the song then. The chord pattern I believe is not protected though the rest is. If your song is replicated somewhere you can take them to court if you think they have copied you. It is here in court where the envelope would be opened. ONLY PUT ONE SONG PER ENVELOPE as if ant other they will loose there copyright as not the case in question but have been aired. It may be that your song or similar appears somewhere but not taken from you. You can not sue I don't think but will be free to play your version-it is for the above two that you should get some form of copyright-the registered way is better but more to it-good luck.
 
I cannot stress enough that mailing a song to yourself thinking it insures a legal copyright is an Urban Legend...it will not hold up in court period...Copyright IS implicit from creation and you should always put the copyright notice on your stuff, but even though it's your creation, and somebody else takes the time to register it with the copyright office, where does that leave you?....legally nowhere.....gibs
 
gibs - if you go to British websites put together by lawyers that give advice about copyright, they suggest the post-it-to-yourself method. Maybe that's what works in Britain...

RevE - that's the clearest and most useful description of what's involved I've ever read. This one goes into the FAQs!
 
Mailing something to yourself means nothing.
Somebody cite me a landmark decision in which a poor slob won a copyright case by whipping out his little self-addresed stamped envelope, and I'll concede the arguement.

Anybody???.. Bueller..... Bueller...
 
The main reason it won't hold up in court is obvious in the following scenario...let's say I address and mail 1 or 50 empty envelopes or cassette type boxes to myself...I wouldn't even have to seal them, because what would I lose anyway if they're empty....I let these things sit around until I hear a hit record on the radio two or three years from now, see if I've got an envelope with a earlier postmark than the copyright date on the song I've heard, make myself a tape and lyrics, put 'em in the empty container , seal 'em, and then call a lawyer so I can try to rip off the real copyright owner....that's what would be brought up in court.....and that's also exactly what could happen to a song that you really created but didn't get a genuine registration...but the rip off artist actually has a legit registration, even though it's dated later than your DIY attempt....duh........gibs
 
I've been delving into the copywrite issues myself. Mailing your self via registered mail is still something that is recommended. And this was recommended by CIPO, the Canadian copywrite office. Any bit of evidence you have that will back you up counts... Nothing to lose by doing it.
 
Th other way I've seen mentioned is to get a bank safe deposit box (the type that requires two keys - yours and the person at the bank. you're better off not opening the box at all, but if you have to, use a stat. dec. that the bank employee signs whenever you add or remove something from the box (the deposit box access is loged by the bank anyway).

The only downside here is that it costs more to keep a safe depositi box than it does to register copyright properly.

Oh well....

- gaffa
 
I hate to be redundant... but, prove that somebody actually won a case by mailing themself a cassette, and we can end the debate right here.
You have the entire internet at your fingertips to prove me wrong. I'm not trying to be cocky... I'd just like to see this "same old, same old" debate put to rest.
gibs got it right. It would be easy to rip off a songwriter the way he explained it.
 
There's another approach I've never seen anyone mention, and I don't see why it wouldn't work. Go to a notary public and get them to sign/witness the song for you - legal signatures, dated. These people ratify documents all the time - why not lyric sheets and CDs?
 
I only went into this topic as a brief guidline to help dark fader in his/her question. But now you bring this up and you want to argue about it. My advice was for the amateur/not proffesional artist who wants to have some legality behind him/her. By mailing yourself a cpoy of a transcribed song you do have a case. If you get somebody to sign the seal of the envelope this is better. You can also get then to sign the bottom of the song sheet where you have signed. My point is that this is the cheap and more common method where you do not have to pay out large amounts of money. I said in my last reply that registering is better but there is more to it.

The good point raised was one that you should put it in a bank safe deposit box. This is a great idea but htere is a cost to it. If your house burns down you are still covered. The practiacl way is to get your cover-IF YOU GET YOUR SONG, PUT THE LYRICS DOWN ON PAPER ALONG WITH THE CHORDS AND TAB AND ALL THE REST INCLUDING A COPY OF THE SONG ON TAPE (but it will deteriorate over time)IF YOU CHOSE YOU ARE ACTUALLY COVERED. GET SOMEONE ELSE TO SIGN AND DATE THE INSERT AND SIGN THE SEAL OF THE ENVELOPE AND YOU ARE COVERED. IF YOU WANT TOTAL COVER, GET OUT THERE AND PLAY THE MUSIC, ONCE AIRED YOU ARE IN A GREAT POSITION TO WIN A CASE IF YOU SO WISH-at the end of the day, cover yourself but just enjoy playing the music-think practically and try to help the person who raises the question-that's the good thing about this forum.
 
I think I showed in my post the reasons why you need a legit copyright registration...but if you wanna do it a thousand different ways other than the correct legal way, by all means do it if it makes you think you've saved a few bucks...and enjoy your time in court...THAT should be really inexpensive, won't it....gibs
 
Hey Dobro,
That idea occured to me as well. My mother is a notary and I asked her and it would not fly. They just verify that a person who signs a document is really that person. They don't verify the date of documents, or whether the text of the document is accurate. Only thing their stamp confirms is that the guy that signed John Doe in the signature field is really John Doe.

Krystof,
I don't think either Buck62 or gibs is trying to start any arguement, they are just stating the truth. Any copyright attorney will tell you the same thing. Whether you are pro or amateur, if you end up in court someday claiming copyright on something and you are up against somebody who has registered with the Library of Congress and you have an old, dusty envelope with a postmark, YOU ARE OUT OF LUCK!

Plus, the only time you would end up in court over a copyright issue, you would be looking for monetary compensation for your original work, right? I think that takes the whole "amateur" thing out of it.

Keep in mind that postmarks and safe deposit records can be doctored. Unless you are a records clerk at the Library of Congress and you are bringing suit against somebody, the certificate of copyright will win hands down. You probaly would never even see a judge if your evidence is a postmark.

There are two ways to try to protect your work (from anyone else laying claim to it)
1. Register it for copyright with the Library of Congress
2. Don't let anybody ever hear or see it.


I think $30 is worth foregoing no. 2

Brad

[This message has been edited by Brad (edited 05-18-2000).]
 
My only point was that sending the product to yourself via registered mail is just one more piece of evidence.

Copywriting through the usual channels is necessary. No way around that.
 
I agree Emeric.
I do it also

I'll explain why I do both in a little while. I am hungry and need to go fuel myself.
 
Okay... I ate.
I am a TAXI member and I often write for specific listings, the only reason I bring this up is because of time. I usually use up all my time writing and recording and then the deadline arrives. I usually drive my submissions right over to TAXI (10 minutes away. The last thing I do before I submit it is register for copyright and send one copy to myself . I do it because it makes me feel better to have something (even though it wouldn't hold up in court) but I have something during the 8 months or so it takes to hear back from LOC. It is a peace of mind thing. The post mark would match the date of copyright because I think that is what the LOC goes by. What does it matter? Nothing probably. Actually I just like the way stamps taste and when I get something in the mail, it makes me feel like I have friends.

Brad
 
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