Converting vinyl to digital - Newbie needs help

[Confused Chimp]

Hi all,
Please excuse my blatant inexperience. But hoping to draw on some of your collective knowledge and experience.
I'm thinking of slowing converting all my dads vinyl into a digital format for him. My idea being is that he rarely gets records out these days and it would be nice for him to be able to listen to some of his old records again and in a much more convenient way.

It would be nice to be able to convert them all to a high quality lossless format initially and then convert them to a lower quality mp3 files as well. This way I can put them on our NAS and then play them in any room he is in and with encouragement he may take to taking them on a mp3 player in the car. That's my plan anyway.

So here is where I need the help. I rather avoid spending money on any hardware unless its quite cheap and absolutely necessary, likewise for software.
But I have two different computers I could use for this process, my old PC is my intention; AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 4200+, Asus A8N32-SLI/Deluxe, running Win XP Pro. Or my New PC; i5-3570K, Asus P8Z77-V, running Win 7 Pro.

My old PC does have an external unit and has software that alters its setup for different purposes (gaming, entertainment and recording). I assume this will be better to use for the recordings than my new PC which although is much faster uses the on-board soundcard. Or is my soundcard just gimmicky and doesn't offer any real advantage?

But assuming my old PC is the better suited for this purpose, then this is where I need the help...
I need recommendations for software to use (would audacity still be a good choice) and what settings to use? Also what would be the best way to connect the turntable to my computer? Should I connect the turntable directly to the external soundcard unit? or should I just connect the Amp to the external unit instead?

Sorry for the vague nature of this. Hope someone out there is able to help. Just want to get the best results my hardware is capable of.
Regards and thanks
CC

 

[PRHunt]

Great idea, and I think your dad would love to hear his old favourites.

There are quite a few tutorials out there. But here are a few things to consider.

1 Between the turntable and the sound capture interface you will need a phono preamplifier. This is needed firstly to boost the small signal from the turntable cartridge to a more usable level, and secondly to apply a special equalization to the audio (the so-called RIAA equalization). This could be a standalone device, part of a hi-fi preamplifier or integrated amplifier, or (possibly) built in to the turntable.

2 Prior to transfer, the vinyl disc should be cleaned.

3 Audacity should be able to handle the audio capture. You might also want to look into noise reduction software to clean up clicks, etc.

Analog devotees will squawk, but I suggest capturing at 44.1kHz 24 bit.

It would help to know what sound devices you have in order to make recommendations in that regard.

 

[ecc83]

Hi CC,
Done a bit of this, 100 sides of punk 45's!

Firstly, what exactly is that interface on the XP Pro PC? (which is more than fit for purpose btw). Assuming it can accept line level from your dad's hi-fi*, has control over that level and can record at 24bits 44.1kHz it will probably do but you would do better IMO to look for a modest, even second hand AI . M-Audio Fast track pro, Tascam US144, Emu 0404 usb, will all give excellent results on Win XP (the Emu is iffy on W7).

Software? Audacity is fine but my choice would be MAGIX Samplitude Silver Cloud. Totally free and has an excellent MP3 coder in it which you can set for trade off, quality V file size (but keep the "master" recordings at 24bits/44.1! Get Dad to spring for a 1TB usb drive!)
BTW. You need 24 bits because you want to record at -20dBFS or so (all will be clearer when you get the software...A bit!) in order to leave room for the inevitable clicks and pops. Once you have a goodly grab of his collection, download the trial version of Sony Soundforge. This has an excellent set of pop, crackle and hiss suppressors in it and you get to use it free for 30 days (then put it on the other PC for another 30 days!)

*I am assuming he has a "rig"? If so you can come out of the tape out RCA (phono) sockets to feed the AI (in fact you can link a PC like a cassette deck but leave us K.I.S.S. for now?).

I know you said you had a NAS but this is going to be a LOT of work! Make sure you have it backed up on at least one extra drive. I have had 2 usb and one internal drive fail in 6 years..'t'appen!

Dave.

 

[WarmJetGuitar]

If your turntable and hi-fi amp is decent, phones out to whatever input your soundcard is taking usually works fine. Just remember to keep bass and treble flat.

Connecting the turntabe directly to the sound card probably won't work as most turntables need a RIAA amp in order to send a proper signal. Your hi-fi amp got that.

 

[Confused Chimp]

Firstly, thank you all for replying. I clearly am even more ignorant than I realised as a lot of this went over my head. Looks like I'll actually have to sit down and research this somewhat. Anyway thought you might like to know the other hardware I'm working with. My dad has a seperates Hi-Fi, which is quite old and wasn't overly expensive when he bought it. The separates he has are a Sony PS-LX150H turntable and a Sony TA-FE200 Amp. Theres no preamp or anything in between them.

There are quite a few tutorials out there.

Yeah I found one, but confused the hell out of me.

Between the turntable and the sound capture interface you will need a phono preamplifier. This is needed firstly to boost the small signal from the turntable cartridge to a more usable level, and secondly to apply a special equalization to the audio (the so-called RIAA equalization). This could be a standalone device, part of a hi-fi preamplifier or integrated amplifier, or (possibly) built in to the turntable.

OK, does that need to be expensive?

2 Prior to transfer, the vinyl disc should be cleaned

That I should be able to manage.

Analog devotees will squawk, but I suggest capturing at 44.1kHz 24 bit.

Thanks, that gives me a starting point.

It would help to know what sound devices you have in order to make recommendations in that regard.

See above.

Firstly, what exactly is that interface on the XP Pro PC?

Sorry I obviously missed it out, I had written it in when I went to post this, but because of an error I had to retype half of it and obviously missed it the second time around.
I have a Creative SB X-Fi Elite Pro PCI. Some of the blurb from the creative site:
Connections:
With SPDIF I/O, Optical I/O, Analog I/O and MIDI I/O connectors, users have all the connectors they need for recording and mastering. For users who want more professional connectivity options, they can choose the Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro. This model comes with an external I/O Console that includes Hi-Z and Phono analog connectivity, full-size MIDI connectors and multiple analog and digital I/O options.

...has control over that level and can record at 24bits 44.1kHz

Not sure yet.

it will probably do but you would do better IMO to look for a modest, even second hand AI . M-Audio Fast track pro, Tascam US144, Emu 0404 usb, .

??HUH?? Sorry went right over my head.

You need 24 bits because you want to record at -20dBFS

OK, I'll take your word for it..

(all will be clearer when you get the software...A bit!)

Not so sure... EEK!

*I am assuming he has a "rig"? If so you can come out of the tape out RCA (phono) sockets to feed the AI

I assume the AI is Audio In?

I know you said you had a NAS but this is going to be a LOT of work! Make sure you have it backed up on at least one extra drive. I have had 2 usb and one internal drive fail in 6 years..'t'appen!

I've just had it happen as well to a brand new (3.5months old 3TB HD - wasn't a happy man) But as data was in a raid that had redundancy it was ok and I didn't loose anything. Although I've not YET got a backup plan in place, its another thing on my to do list.

If your turntable and hi-fi amp is decent

Unlikely, but see what you think of the model numbers above.

Just remember to keep bass and treble flat.

Thanks.

RIAA amp

Huh?

You might be starting to realise I really don't have much of a clue. A lot of those terms I can probably find out with a little of googling, but I've not had the time to sit down and research them yet. But wanted to reply now to say thanks for the help and to give you an idea of how out of my depth I am.
So anyway many thanks for your efforts they are very much appreciated.

 

[rayc]

I've been doing vinyl restoration/digitization for more than a decde.
I use a good turntable, an old but good stereo amplifier with built in phono preamp & therefore RIAA EQ, RCA - stereo jack Y cable to the in of a good ish soundcard or my recording interface if I really want super quality and I use WAVEREPAIR to record, edit & restore as needed.
The software is around $60 and downloaded.
There are other software solutions out there but none are as robust and tweakable as this one.
THe rest I had already in the house.
Clean the vinyl well before recording.
DON"T use auto click/pop/noise reduction. learn how those aspects of WRepair work and do them carefully - auto is OK but you can make a record sound worse if the settings are not correct for the given project.

 

[ecc83]

Hi RayC,
It would of course be wise for the OP to keep his original dubbs as 24bit .wavs and treat only copies!

Have you tried Sony Soundforge? I found I got excellent results but then I was rescuing very badly treated punk 45's and sonic artifacts would have been well hidden below the raucus thrash! (there is only SO much Paul Weller a 60yr old can take!)

AI OP? Audio Interface. You need one.

I would not use a headphone output on a hi fi amp as was suggested. They tend to be noisy and suffer from crossover distortion (unless you have a Sugden class A rig!) It would be a pretty poor, downmarket "hi fi" amp that did not have tape outs.

Dave.

 

[PRHunt]

Did someone suggest using headphone out?

The integrated stereo amp that the OP mentions seems to provide phono input and record/tape outputs which should be suitable, even if not high end.

The OP has indicated that he/she wishes to spend a minimum on this project, so I think it would be worthwhile trying to use the existing gear as far as possible.

 

[rayc]

yeah, phono in and either tape or auxilliary out.
Soundforge - tried it - not as versatile as WR for my purposes.
One may also create macros and stacks of processes in WR that can be constructed for specific purposes. the find & replace function is pretty cool too - trial and error often but useful nonetheless.

 

[ecc83]

yeah, phono in and either tape or auxilliary out.
Soundforge - tried it - not as versatile as WR for my purposes.
One may also create macros and stacks of processes in WR that can be constructed for specific purposes. the find & replace function is pretty cool too - trial and error often but useful nonetheless.

Ooo! Thanks Ray! What a useful bit of software. I have only just downloaded and installed it on this XP Home PC but already I can see the potential. Quickly found the frequency analyser. Can't as yet find any dBFS meters?

At just $30 I shall certainly buy this. Do you know if it runs on Win 7 64bit?
I also have Adobe Audition 1.5 which is very powerful but a LOT more complex to use than this!

Dave.

 

[PRHunt]

At just $30 I shall certainly buy this. Do you know if it runs on Win 7 64bit?

If it doesn't run straight up, you might need to fiddle around with some of the program compatibility settings. OR... create a virtual XP machine using VirtualBox. Not as silly as it may sound, especially on a current generation PC.

 

[ecc83]

If it doesn't run straight up, you might need to fiddle around with some of the program compatibility settings. OR... create a virtual XP machine using VirtualBox. Not as silly as it may sound, especially on a current generation PC.

Nope, no problem.
I whacked it on my W7/64 HP i3 laptop last night and it flew, straight out of the box!

The next acid test is Vista!

"Not as silly as it sounds" ? Don't understand why that MIGHT be silly? I did try to run a Virtual Machine on the HP lappy a few months ago but could not get it to work. Don't think it was Virtualbox tho'. Can I run a virtual XP on the Vista machine?

Dave.

 

[PRHunt]

"Not as silly as it sounds" ? Don't understand why that MIGHT be silly? I did try to run a Virtual Machine on the HP lappy a few months ago but could not get it to work. Don't think it was Virtualbox tho'. Can I run a virtual XP on the Vista machine?

As far as I am aware, you can run VirtualBox host on Vista, and XP is certainly a supported guest OS. For best results, you need to switch on the BIOS virtualization features on the host machine.

Regarding the "silly" comment, some users feel that going to the bother of setting up a virtual machine is somewhat akin to cracking a walnut with a 10lb hammer. However, I have personally found virtual machines very handy at times.

 

[rayc]

The channel db meters pop up when you set up to record. They can be locked in concert or run independently.
It is a good prog - the developer built it do do the task as digitizing became his quasi hobby once LPs became difficult to acquire so changes were made on the fly to suit the task very specifically.
I've only used it on XP - I'm sure he'd have updated it for something better. Don't forget to grab the manual.

 

[ecc83]

The channel db meters pop up when you set up to record. They can be locked in concert or run independently.
It is a good prog - the developer built it do do the task as digitizing became his quasi hobby once LPs became difficult to acquire so changes were made on the fly to suit the task very specifically.
I've only used it on XP - I'm sure he'd have updated it for something better. Don't forget to grab the manual.

Yes Ray, found the meters! I would like them on all the time but if no can do there are other meter apps I can use ('t'would be handy if M-As would make the 2496 control panel "always ontop'able"!) .

Re Win 7/74 I have only just loaded it and not had time to evaluate in any way save it plays a .wav and nothing flags up as wrong so, very promising? I have the latest download, ver: 4.9.4

Thanks again.
Dave.