Controlling MOTU 828 MKII's input levels

[NashBackslash]

Calling all MOTU 828 MKII users!

I would like to know how to control the input level of the analog inputs of the 828 (if I'm not mistaken, the term for it is called "pre-fader tracking level").

Fiddling with the front knobs, or the included CueMix DSP software does not help because those only adjust the output of the analog inputs (AKA post-fader tracking level?).

I have taken suggestions from people here recently who basically advised me to set the pre-amp on my mixer hot enough but not clipping, and set the mixer's fader to unity gain. Then set the individual input levels on the 828 to -14dBFS or so.

However, there doesn't seem to be a way to set the input level. Only the output level!

When I play with the front knobs (or CueMix DSP), I will actually HEAR the levels going down, BUT the meters on the 828 are very hot.

I have done several forum searches, but none yielded any results. The only solution I have for now is to turn down the mixer's faders (instead of setting them at unity gain). And that introduces a small amount of noise. Nothing untolerable, but still not pleasant.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated. Cheers!

- Nash

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Hello again, Nash,

I'm no expert on the internals of the 828, but I'd think that if they went so far in their documentation as to coin the term "pre-fader tracking level" (which is a correct term, BTW), that they'd have an explanation somewhere about either how to control it; whether it's controllable from inside the 828 or has to be controlled from outside. I'd expect if you could access that paameter at all in the 828, it would be accessable via the LCD mixer controls on the front panel.

If you have a hard time finding the answer in this forum, try the Unicorn Nation forum which is specifically for MOTU owners/users. A lot more likely to get a hit on an 828 owner there.

However, I would suggest that if the metering on the 828 shows your input levels as "high" but still in the negative numbers - in other words higher than the -14dBFS but still below 0dBFS - then you're doing just fine, my man, no adjustments necessary. At that stage in the chain (in to the 828), keeping the signals high is desired. It's at the point where you're laying down the recorded WAV files on your computer where you want the levels dropped a bit to give you the mixing headrom. You can drop them at the output of the MOTU with your Cuemix console or at the input of your recording software (I forget which software you had) via its own level controls.

G.

 

[NashBackslash]

Hi Glen,

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, the front LCD controls, as well as the CueMix DSP software, do not adjust the levels coming into the 828. To make things worse, the hardware and the software controls are both linked together.

I am using Sonar 3, and there is no way to set the recording levels in Sonar.

I will definitely check out that MOTU forum. It seems that a registration is required, and I have a small issue with opening so many forum accounts. In the mean time, I'll try to read the 828 docs again to see if I can find anything. I'm at home now, and my studio has no internet connection so I can only read the docs when I get back to the studio.

Until then, I would just have to reduce the fader levels on my mixer. It's a shame that I have to use the noisy pres on my mixer (Behringer UB2442 :/). I do a lot of live recording (all bandmates play at the same time), so I'm going to need a lot of good pre-amps... argh, need money, need money...

Anyway, Glen, thanks for the forum link. I'll check that forum out soon!

- Nash

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I am using Sonar 3, and there is no way to set the recording levels in Sonar....
Until then, I would just have to reduce the fader levels on my mixer.

Hopefully a Sonar user will chime in here and set the record straight, but I'd be *extremely* suprised if Sonar did not have it's own mixer panel. I know that Guitar Traks (Sonar's "little brother") has it, Sonar 4 has it, and every other DAW in Sonar's class has one, or at least the ability to set input volume on the multitrack screen. Look closer at Sonar's features when you get back if there is no specific response here.

Again, if your MOTU meters are not peaking/clipping, you're OK, and need not play with the trim or fades on the Berhinger. On the computer side, even if Sonar did not have an input mixer, you can control it via the output level controls on the MOTU/Cuemix console.

G.

 

[acidrock]

I am using Sonar 3, and there is no way to set the recording levels in Sonar.

You don't set recording levels in Sonar,you set mixing levels.That is the level of your already recorded track.
When you record to a DAW you convert an analog signal to a digital signal.If that signal clips or distorts you must back off on the level of your volume fader.
Sonar will show you if your signal is clipping,but you must stop it from clipping before it gets to Sonar.Once it is recorded,there's no going back or "fixing" it.

I have taken suggestions from people here recently who basically advised me to set the pre-amp on my mixer hot enough but not clipping, and set the mixer's fader to unity gain. Then set the individual input levels on the 828 to -14dBFS or so.

I set my Delta cards all the way up and do my adjusting at the pre-amp,I think this is pretty standard for most people.

If your mixers preamps are noisy,they're noisy.It could be your mics,cables,monitor also.

 

[crankz1]

Yup, your level attenuation to the analog inputs of the 828mkII must be made by the gain/trim of whatever preamp you are using. Likewise with the two front preamps on the 828mkII (level set via their trim knobs).
If you are connecting a line level device, such as a keyboard's analog output, you will set your input level to the MOTU via whatever output level attenuation the line level device offers (it's output volume).

Think of the 828mkII as a 20 input 4 stereo bus mixer. Now, on this mixer, each input has a virtual pre-fader direct output that goes straight to the A/D converters (with the exception of the digital inputs .... of course they need no conversion) and on to the computer via FireWire. Seeing as how the direct outputs are pre-fader, you must make your gain staging prior to the mixer. What goes into the mixer goes straight to the computer as well as branch off to CueMix.

CueMix is strictly a monitor mixer that gives you level attenuation over your 4 mix busses for direct monitoring to whatever outputs that are assigned to the the different busses. CueMix is what allows the 828mkII to function as a stand alone mixer. As you have seen, the front knobs serve the exact same function as the CueMix GUI on the computer.
However, when the unit is connected to a computer, Mix Bus 1 can include the stereo output of the audio coming from the computer to the monitor mix of that bus. Thus allowing you to hear your previously recorded material while direct monitoring material for subsequent tracks.

While I don't use Sonar (can't help ya none there), I would assume it would give you the ability to monitor within Sonar itself. Either via accessing the 828's driver and allowing direct monitoring or at least by processing the inputs and offering software monitoring. In either case you wouldn't be using CueMix, so you would want to mute the output of Mix Bus 1 to avoid double monitoring and the possible chorusing/delay effect caused by it.

HTH

-Ken

 

[NashBackslash]

Thanks for the information. I'll definitely practise these.

Cheers!

- Nash