Computer, External Mixing, Hardware....

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MBM

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I have many questions but before I bombard this forum with my questions, I need to know if my Computer has a basic capability for external mixing and recording of simultaneous multi tracks.

Computer:
Dell Laptop, Win XP SP3, 1.60G Processor, 1.00G Ram, 88G Hard Drive, 2.0 USB, 4 pin IEEE 1394, PCMCIA, CD/DVD Burner. Std Soundcard 1/8" In and Out....Hard Drive speed unknown.

Thanks, MBM....
 
My computer is far inferior to that, and I've recorded many projects with Cool Edit Pro and Sonar LE. Right now I'm working on a 12ish track mix of my band. Just look at the system requirements for whatever software you want to use.
 
Thanks Question444. Now on to the connectivity question. From what I have been reading, Firewire is faster than USB especially when recording many tracks at one time. Is this a correct statement. If true, this leaves me with a 4 pin IEEE 1394 port. I will need a 6 pin to 4 pin adaptor to connect to this port. Is this correct ? But what about Midi ? Is this type of connection even an option ? Just to let you know, I'm planning on using an external mixer so the connection to my Computer will determine what type of connection my external hardware will use. Is this a correct statement.

Thanks, MBM....
 
Ok, I've skipped over the connection question and just jumped into to the fire without any input or answers from the educated forum members here. I've just ordered a Allen & Heath ZED-436. I hope that it allows me to send multiple tracks to my computer, not just stereo outputs....

Thanks, MBM....
 
MBM said:
Ok, I've skipped over the connection question and just jumped into to the fire without any input or answers from the educated forum members here. I've just ordered a Allen & Heath ZED-436. I hope that it allows me to send multiple tracks to my computer, not just stereo outputs....

Thanks, MBM....
Click to expand...


I've just been looking at the specs for the ZED-436. My understanding is that it provides USB connectivity. However, that only allows a stereo pair to be fed into the computer. I don't think it will do multiple tracks.

For multiple tracks, you might consider the ZED R16, which is a firewire verion with sixteen channels going down the wire.

However, I am not sure about either the 436 or r16 being used as a control surface, i.e. so that you can mix fro the desk.
 
Man, that was a close one. I was able to cancel that order. Thanks gecko zzed. I was simply looking to get as many inputs as I could and still control my virtual computer mixer from the outside. I guess that I was tired when I placed that order for the Zed. I've been trying to absorb all the information regarding home recording for several months now. I know what I would like to do but trying to injest all the manufactures lingo or hipe is mind boggling. I looked at Control surface's but wanted more inputs. I also wanted a mixer for live sound reinforcement when I was not recording using mutiple tracks. I defiantly will go with Firewire as well. Does a mixer like this exist or would you go about it in a different way ?

Thanks again gecko zzed....

MBM....
 
MBM said:
I was simply looking to get as many inputs as I could and still control my virtual computer mixer from the outside.
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Firewire mixers, at least the ones I've used, don't control your virtual mixer at all. They send 16 channels of input TO your PC, and your PC returns a stereo out from your virtual mixer back to your mixer on the firewire track. You can typically send the fw return to your main mix, control room, etc, but the individual tracks won't go back to the channel strips on your mixer. To have your hardware control your DAW's virtual mixer would be a function of a control surface, not a mixer/interface. You can double check, but I doubt the ZED R16 does control surface functions, as fine a device as it is..
 
Thanks for your help suprstar. Your advice has led me to the PreSonus StudioLive 16.4.2 which has just come out. I don't see much info here on the forums regarding the pro's and con's of the brand PreSonus and it's quality. Any thoughts ?

Thanks, MBM....
 
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The presonus 16.4.2 looks like the deal for you . . . but you would need to double check. Because I mix in the box, I have not paid much attention to external controllers.
 
Thanks gecko zzed. Any reason you like to mix in the box ?

MBM....
 
The specs mention JetPLL, which tells me that the PreSonus StudioLive is probably a DICE II-based interface. If so, be forewarned that those things have lots of compatibility problems. I wouldn't touch it with a ten meter pole.
 
MBM said:
Thanks gecko zzed. Any reason you like to mix in the box ?

MBM....
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Mixing in the box removes one layer of complexity . . . that of getting stuff in and out of the computer, and I like the resulting simplicity.

I can also find all the things I am likely to need in the box: reverb, EQ, FX and so on. I don't need to go outboard to do this. I like the integration of everything.

I recall the days of 'riding the faders', and the physicality of mixing; there is an immediacy about the process that some people enjoy. I acknowledge that there are people who are very tactile, and that they are more effective when they have things they can touch and move (for example, people who enjoy woodwork or fiddling with cars) . . . they like 'doing' something.

Mixing in the box requires a different approach; slightly more analytical and a bit less reactive to mixing, making use of the power of the computer to take care of the physical work for you through the use of automation, envelopes and so on.
 
dgatwood, I thought that jetPLL was for a reduction in audio jitter. Is PreSonus disguising the fact that their software or other software is proprietary ? What don't the manufacture's state these things more clearly especially for newcomers or is this the hipe that they put on in their sales pitch. I don't want to find out about these kinds of things after spending $2000 for a piece of equipment. What else should I know about any other kinds of hipe. Thanks for your input....

MBM....

gecko zzed, I like to know more about In the box recording. It could be that I might end up doing my recordings that way instead of OTB. What kind of audio interface are you using ? I ask that because the PreSonus Firestudio Project audio interface use's the jetPLL that dgatwood mentioned above. Thank you for your help....

MBM....
 
MBM said:
gecko zzed, I like to know more about In the box recording. It could be that I might end up doing my recordings that way instead of OTB. What kind of audio interface are you using ? I ask that because the PreSonus Firestudio Project audio interface use's the jetPLL that dgatwood mentioned above. Thank you for your help.....
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I don't know anything about jetPLL.

I use a Presonus Firepod (which, I believe, is now the FP10). This has eight mike inputs (plus other stuff, midi, SPDIF etc.) and eight lines via firewire into the PC.

When I first started looking at digital stuff (mid-nineties) I ended up with Logic Audio and an eMagic PCI card. At that time, my brain was still thinking in conventional recording practices: faders, knobs, patchbays and hardware FX. When getting the interface and software, my questions at the time related to how I could match my bits of rack-iron with the new digital gear. It took me a while to realise that I had to adjust my thinking and revise the whole recording 'business processes'.

Once I made this step, I quickly became comfortable with a different way of doing things.

At times, I do fly things out of the box . . . for example, I might record a clean guitar directly into the PC, then send this via an output into an amp, then mike up and record the guitar-through-amp sound.

I still use an external mixer, but this is mainly for routing purposes rather then for mixing as such, For example, with the Firepod only having eight outs, I sometimes have to rationalise the inputs, by, for example, submixing four kit mikes into a stereo pair so that I free up Firepod inputs. (Another advantage of th external mixer is the mute buttons on the tracks . . . something they need to do with interfaces, but which I have yet to see).
 
I've decided to mix ITB. It's a great way for me to get started just because of the simplicity and setup as you mentioned early. I've been looking at the PreSonus Firestudio Project. It has the same features as the FirePod (FP10), but with slight modifications. It also has the jetPLL. I'm still trying to figure out what that is exactly. I also like that I can Daisy chain more PreSonus units together for more inputs. The pre-amps look good and the plug-in availability is great. The software bundle that comes with the unit is plentiful, although I'm not sure what is good or bad regarding the sound or user quality. The PreSonus web site has a compatibilty chart that lists what works (known), with the Firestudio Project with regards to the Firewire chipset. Any idea how I can find out what I have without taking apart my laptop and physically looking at the chip ? Also, since my computer is a laptop, my Firewire slot has a 4 pin connector and the PreSonus connector is a 6 pin. Will a 6 pin to 4 pin adaptor be ok to use ? Thanks gecko zzed for your help. It is greatly appreciated....

MBM....
 
I'm afraid I can't help with firewire technical stuff. I've got a firepod going into a firewire card in the PC. All I know is that it works.

I think the firestudio comes with Cubase LE, which is a pretty reaosnable audio and midi program and should get you going alright. As you say, there are plenty of plug-ins for it.

There are other applications worth considering as well, such as Reaper, which is very powerful and flexible, and has an extraordinary range of its own credible plug-ins. An unrestricted trial download is free.
 
Yeah, I've heard many positive things about Reaper. I will have to check it out. Thanks for your help....

MBM....
 
To answer the question, JetPLL is a TC Electronics trademark for some anti-jitter technology that is incorporated into their DICE II audio interface chipsets. I don't think that it exists with non-DICE II chipsets, but I could be wrong.

The FireStudio Project you mention is a DICE II interface. In spite of the theoretically better audio quality, I wouldn't recommend that interface at all. Low jitter clocking and higher quality audio coming out of the converters isn't worth much when you can't record for all the pops and crackles.... :)

The FP10 is also not high on my list. Too many hardware failures. They seem to be prone to having their FireWire ports suddenly go dead.

If you want a good choice in roughly that price range, look into the MOTU 8Pre. Other good (but more expensive) interfaces include the RME FireFace, etc.
 
MBM said:
Also, since my computer is a laptop, my Firewire slot has a 4 pin connector and the PreSonus connector is a 6 pin. Will a 6 pin to 4 pin adaptor be ok to use ?
Click to expand...

No prob, the extra 2 pins are power for devices that don't have an external power supply. Any interface you buy will have it's own power.
 
Thanks dgatwood. Your input is much appreciated. Your response is helping me to understand the areas that I need educated in. The DICE II comments stopped me in my tracks. I was just getting ready to purchase a PreSonus Audio Interface. I have a lot to learn. I see that you responed to another thread of mine (Firewire Chipset). I look forward to hearing more from you in that thread.

Suprstar, Thanks for your help as well. Your answers help me to zoom in on the big picture of how things should work....

MBM....
 
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