Compressor plug-in presets

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iwantmypie

iwantmypie

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I'm sure most people here don't like using plug-ins or if they do, presets but i'm have trouble with two of them. One is called "Mix Down" and the other is "Premastering". Now the thing I was wondering is which I should use for when I'm first mixing and which one for mastering. The terms are kind of confusing me. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.
 
Pre-sets for compressors are generally useless as each signal is unique and a (pre) set of parameters would do different things depending on the input signal. Rather than rely on presets, learn what each parameter does. Google for articles on compression.

Also, unless you know why you need a compressor, you shouldn't be using one. Don't slap a plug-in on a track unless you need it there. Good luck!
 
iwantmypie said:
I'm sure most people here don't like using plug-ins or if they do, presets but i'm have trouble with two of them. One is called "Mix Down" and the other is "Premastering". Now the thing I was wondering is which I should use for when I'm first mixing and which one for mastering. The terms are kind of confusing me. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.


Use you can use either for when your mixing. I'd look for the mastering pre set if your going to use a pre set when mastering.

Alot pre sets are good guidelines IMO not perfect but alot easier to tweak starting from a default setting. But since this is music and not visual aid use your EARS to determine if it does sound
 
gordone said:
Pre-sets for compressors are generally useless as each signal is unique and a (pre) set of parameters would do different things depending on the input signal. Rather than rely on presets, learn what each parameter does. Google for articles on compression.

Oh man good answer...I thought I might be alone here. Using "factory" pre-sets can only point to a lack of understanding fundamental parameters. On the other hand, depending on the nature of your projects, creating your own pre-sets can be a real time saver.

JH
 
If you are going to use a compressor, an easy way to start getting the basics of what it does, is to take a soundfile, and then use some very heavy settings, so you can see what changes occur when you adjust them. Start off by just changing one setting at a time, and make big changes. You will then see what these changes do, and get a bit of an understanding. This is just a place to start, and you should read as many article as you can find on the subject. There's many good ones here, and many links also. Presets are a fine starting point, but as has been previously stated, you will probably have to tweak settings for each individual track/song, that you are applying it to.

Have fun.
Ed
 
Dogman said:
Presets are a fine starting point, but as has been previously stated, you will probably have to tweak settings for each individual track/song, that you are applying it to.

No they're not....

This was covered early... NO one at the factory where the pre-sets were loaded could POSSIBLE have a clue as to what you're feeding it. It's as wrong as it could get. Compressors, reverbs ect, ect are "reactive" to the situation at hand. They can only be effective when the pilot in command of the mix understands a) the audio he or she is listening to and b) how the parameters of a particular compressor might effect that particular piece of audio.

If you choose to think that pre-sets may, in some cosmic sense and by simply pushing a button, somehow help your unique audio situation at any given time you also choose to ignore learning what these devices do and there parameters there in.

If the manufacturer provided a "this mix sucks REAL bad" button would'nt that make you think hmmm how did they know about the "real bad" part.
 
Joseph Hanna said:
No they're not....

This was covered early... NO one at the factory where the pre-sets were loaded could POSSIBLE have a clue as to what you're feeding it. It's as wrong as it could get. Compressors, reverbs ect, ect are "reactive" to the situation at hand. They can only be effective when the pilot in command of the mix understands a) the audio he or she is listening to and b) how the parameters of a particular compressor might effect that particular piece of audio.

If you choose to think that pre-sets may, in some cosmic sense and by simply pushing a button, somehow help your unique audio situation at any given time you also choose to ignore learning what these devices do and there parameters there in.

If the manufacturer provided a "this mix sucks REAL bad" button would'nt that make you think hmmm how did they know about the "real bad" part.

I think it depends on what you want the compressor to do. For some things I can see how a pre-set on a compressor could be an okay starting point except for the threshhold, although I don't think I've used one since I learned what all the functions are.
 
A compressor doesn't work like EQ where a preset is going to have a specific sound... or permutation of the source (not that I suggest EQ presets either, but they make a bit more sense). Compressors act TOTALLY differently depending on what you give it as source material. Even though there are 4-5 different parameters to learn when using a compressor, learning them is really the only way to do it correctly or even halfway decently.

Threshold is the point where the compressor starts working. If you put the threshold at -5db, the compressor will come into effect if you put a signal above -5db into it.

Attack and release are exactly as they sound. When a signal at the set threshold hits the compressor, how long will the compressor wait to act (attack) and how long will it take to reset back to normal (release).

Ratio is the amount the compressor will affect the signal when the set threshold is hit. Think: After threshold point, input will be relative to output at the given ratio. 2:1 means a signal coming into the compressor at -3db when the threshold is at -5db (a 2db difference) will be output at -4db. 1db output difference to the threshold as opposed to 2db output difference of the threshold on the original. 2:1

Makeup gain is simple gain to compensate for the ratio reduction caused in the compression. The example above compressed the signal by 1db, so you could use the makeup gain to bring it back up if that's important to you.

It does take time to learn, but each of these ideas is VERY important when setting a compressor. A compressor is a tool - a problem solver. If you don't know the material you're working with or how to set each of these parameters, how can you solve the problem correctly?
 
Joseph Hanna said:
No they're not....

This was covered early... NO one at the factory where the pre-sets were loaded could POSSIBLE have a clue as to what you're feeding it. It's as wrong as it could get. Compressors, reverbs ect, ect are "reactive" to the situation at hand. They can only be effective when the pilot in command of the mix understands a) the audio he or she is listening to and b) how the parameters of a particular compressor might effect that particular piece of audio.

If you choose to think that pre-sets may, in some cosmic sense and by simply pushing a button, somehow help your unique audio situation at any given time you also choose to ignore learning what these devices do and there parameters there in.

If the manufacturer provided a "this mix sucks REAL bad" button would'nt that make you think hmmm how did they know about the "real bad" part.

You're wayy off base here, unless you have plug-ins that don't even correspond to real world settings. I happen to use the Classic series, form Kjaerhus Audio, and they have presets that are some very good basic starting points. The program I use, Adobe Audition, has many plugins that have usefull presets also. I always adjust them on my own after starting to figure out what sound I want to acheive, but they make for fine starting points.

And, if you delve a bit further into what i said, Starting point is the key word. How can a preset that is 3.5:1, -5db, with a with a somewhat fast attack, and realease, be that far from something you wouldn't just naturally try?
 
mixer presets are a fine starting point to me because i can see what happens and how that sound was made.....granted i dont plan on using them, but i have done a mock up mix with them...everyone has to start somewhere.....play with presets so you already see how something sounds different...if you dont like the way it sounds...delete it and start over.
 
To my way of thinking, the problem with presets isn't with the presets temselves but with the way many of the users who like to use them actually use them. Now stick with me here for a minute befor you light up the flamethrowers... :)

I think Dogman is right, there's nothing wrong in principle with using a preset as a "get it close" starting off point from which you can dial in quicker. There will even be the occasional harmonic convergence when the preset just so happens to be the way it sounds best, if you get lucky. There's not a thing wrong with any of that in principle.

However, the use of presets in simply the way described above tends to diminish greatly as one gains experinece with the use of the tool. To use Dogman's example, it is faster and easier for me to just dial in "3.5:1,-5,fast" than it is to figure out which preset actually represents that, scroll through the presets (if it's a plug or iron with a scrolling menu) and select it. Once one becomes familiar with the way the parameters actually work, presets do little to facilitate one's ability, IMHO.

And this is where the presets get insidious, because the natural response to the above is, "Well, that's OK for you, you have experinece with compressor settings. But the presets can help out a newb who doesn't yet undertsnad the difference between 'fast attack' and 'blitzkreig'." In actuality, I take the position they do just the opposite, they tend to keep the newb a newb who will become dependant upon those presets like a crutch and most of the time will not even be able to tell you just what settings any given preset represents or what those settings actually mean. And beyond that, the majority will rarely, if ever, actually ever stray off of the preset settings.

If you don't believe me, take a survey amongst you neighbors and ask them what power and time they are actually setting their microwave oven for when they press the "Popcorn" preset. Over half of them will not give a correct answer, or will say, "Who cares?" Then ask them if their "Popcorn" preset over cook, under cook, or cook perfectly your brand of microwave popcorn. Less than half (probably closer to 1/3rd) will answer "cook perfectly". Then ask the majority who say that it doesn't cook perfectly if they still use the Popcorn button or whether they use manual time ro power settings to dial it in right. The vast majority of them will say they still use the preset. Some may say they turn it off a few seconds early, others may say thay use it and then use it a second time, but turn it off the second time after a few seconds. But very few people will say they forego the use of the "Popcorn" button altogether because it doesn't do the job as well as a manual time and power setting will.

A "premaster" setting on a compressor is like that "popcorn" button on a microwave. It will as often as not be the wrong setting for the application, and those who use it will tend to get so hooked on using it that they will not learn much about what it actually means and will rarely stray off of it's defaults.

That's how today's society wants it. Everybody wants to be a rocket scientist without having to actually learn any science or have any experience with rockets. They want to just push a button and have a machine do it for them. And we wonder why the Space Shuttle leaves more garbage behind it than a Lollapalooza crowd...

OK, so I got a little rant-y at the end there. sorry. :o

G.
 
Southside, you went into greater detail than I, and explained this much better. And I like the analogy of the popcorn setting.
Ed
 
as a once compresor newb and a still beginner/novice......the presets helped me to see what they did but it wasnt what i wanted...the smartest move i did was buy a hardware compressor...i had no choice but to figure out how to use it cause god knows i dont read the fucking manual lol.
 
I agree, and want to add: In most compressors (or any plugin really) they have more than just one preset. The company who created it (who I'm sure knows more about what its doing than most of us do) went with "best guess" at what some "Vocals" may sound like. There for getting a little closer to where is should be, than say "Drums".

IMO, presets are a good way to start learning what something does, and how it does it. An exercise like Dogman pointed out is a good way to learn. You could also use different presets on the same file and to figure out what the creator was trying to do and why.
 
Dogman said:
You're wayy off base here, unless you have plug-ins that don't even correspond to real world settings.

Case in point..... What real world audio??.. and to that I'd add my pre-sets are neither real world or un-worldly.

EVERY piece of audio I get is completely different from the last. I look at what I've been given to work with and if problematic set about adjusting the parameters of any given plug-in to solve that specific problem. To that end I'd point out that in the last 6 months of production we have used a lot of acoustic guitar. Same player but a half dozen different guitars or so. There is absolutely NOTHING similar about theses guitars. One is "A" string boomy, one is bright one is overwhelming and on it goes. It would be sheer cosmic coincidence if a pre-set compressor from say Roland addressed these specific guitars and their inherent problems

As to the comment about the companies who created them knowing more about compression pre-sets than anyone here well umm unfortunately it does appear that way but b) more importantly no matter how much someone knows how to use the parameters of a compressor and create pre-sets they have NO clue as to what your specific audio is going to be. It's as likely to be 100% wrong as it is 30% right.

I still don't get the hesitency to simply learn the parameters rather than lean on some guess work pre-set.
 
Joseph Hanna said:
Case in point..... What real world audio??.. and to that I'd add my pre-sets are neither real world or un-worldly.

EVERY piece of audio I get is completely different from the last. I look at what I've been given to work with and if problematic set about adjusting the parameters of any given plug-in to solve that specific problem. To that end I'd point out that in the last 6 months of production we have used a lot of acoustic guitar. Same player but a half dozen different guitars or so. There is absolutely NOTHING similar about theses guitars. One is "A" string boomy, one is bright one is overwhelming and on it goes. It would be sheer cosmic coincidence if a pre-set compressor from say Roland addressed these specific guitars and their inherent problems

As to the comment about the companies who created them knowing more about compression pre-sets than anyone here well umm unfortunately it does appear that way but b) more importantly no matter how much someone knows how to use the parameters of a compressor and create pre-sets they have NO clue as to what your specific audio is going to be. It's as likely to be 100% wrong as it is 30% right.

I still don't get the hesitency to simply learn the parameters rather than lean on some guess work pre-set.

It depends what you're doing. The creator at the company knows that obviously you're not going to need a 350ms attack if you're only trying to let the very beginning transient of a snare drum through and you're not going to need a 600ms release. There are some generalities with different sounds where you can come to a conservative estimate- a starting point. I do however recommend that beginners ONLY use presets. Then my horrible mixes won't sound so bad in comparison :D
 
Personally i dont think theyshould even include the presets.

I think what each compressor SHOULD include, be it a hard or software,
is the same exact general instructions.


Fuckin' toss em in the audio pool, an make em' swim!!

God forbid that a newbie would have to study to get a result.

-Finster
 
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