compressing guitar during tracking?

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mikemorgan

mikemorgan

panned out
A crucial part of my guitar sound and playing style involves using heavy compression. When recorded direct, the wavelength starts with a tremendous spike, followed by a smooth flow which rises, and then eventually trails off. I am able to adjust the compressor attack enough to compensate for most of this, but of course those pesky peaks are keeping me from getting all the bits I deserve.

I'll be working with a new engineer next week who I suspect will ask me to track as dry as possible, but I am worried about losing the feel, sustain and sense of power that a healthy squish gives me. I like the slow release and swell which pushes my amp into saturation in a more controllable way.

How do I kill the peaks? Will a limiter accomplish this without cutting off the attack? Is there a guitar pedal oriented limiter I can add to my rig for future sessions? This is pretty much a deal-breaker for me, I've tracked dry before and have never been happy with the results.

Thanks for your replies, we're going into sessions in two weeks.
 
If you are tracking at 24bit (which I hope you are) then you dont need to record your tracks as hot as possible. You can run them with a good 4dB headroom and they should be fine.

You could always place a brickwall limiter on the input for the guitar recording. So you can record at a good level without peaking im sure. Or am I totally wrong on that one!

Eck
 
mikemorgan said:
I'll be working with a new engineer next week who I suspect will ask me to track as dry as possible, but I am worried about losing the feel, sustain and sense of power that a healthy squish gives me.
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Three questions:

Do you trust the engineer?

Who is playing the part of producer?

Do you need to hear the compression in order to play properly during tracking?


If you trust the engineer, you should tell him before hand just what you told us here. If you don't trust him, don't hire him. If you have no choice in the matter, then move to question 2.

It's the producer's job to make sure the negineer understands what is needed or wanted re the sound. If you are playing that part, then lay down the law with the engineer. If someone else is playing producer, then he's the one you need to talk to, especially regarding question 3.

If you need the compression in your headphones in order to get the proper biofeedback while recording, definitely make sure you tell the engineer that so he can set your headphone/aux feed up properly. They can also use this as a guide as to exactly what sound you prefer. Keep in mind, though, that if you are not the producer, what you perfer may carry little to no weight, as it's the producer's call. OTOH, if you don't need that compression sound in order to play properly, then don't worry about recording dry; it's better to apply it in mixing anywhay where the sound can be fine-tuned as needed.

G.
 
Thanks guys, and especially Glen, props to you, oh sage!

Yeah, I trust the guy based on what I've heard him do, not through any first-hand experience though.

I am co-producing with the money-man, who only knows what he likes to hear, not how to get there.

Yeah, Glen, I was wondering about splitting the signal somewhere to give me what I need to hear in the cans, while letting him track as dry as he wants. It is essential to my playing, for better or for worse.


Rami, my guitar sound is what I would call bottom-saturated, with a little hair on it if I dig in. I call it "huge" guitar and liken it to cathedral organ with attitude. Kinda like what Ritchie Blackmore would have sounded like on a Tele.
 
mikemorgan said:
Kinda like what Ritchie Blackmore would have sounded like on a Tele.
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Hehe...That's a weird visual. But the fact tha,t of all guitar players, you choose RB to describe your sound, I like you already.
 
Are you recording an amp? ..... or just direct ...or both?

It sounds like you are talking about your front end compression being integral to your sound.... i.e. pedal or rack unit ..... before the amp. If thats true I see no reason why the engineer should make you alter your usual set-up .... unless it really sounds like ass or the engineer is experienced enough to realize your live sound is not going to sound good at all on the recording... which can often be the case but not neccessarily require drastic changes to aquire a good recorded sound.

But if it sounds good in the room (assuming an amp) then the engineers job should be to capture THAT sound .... not change it.

Your font end compression is a different thing from track compression.... ie in front of the amp vs. after the mic.

Like ecktronic implied, you should be able to record with enough headroom to allow for the peaks and then be able to apply the compression on mixdown.

Or insert a track compressor/limiter to tame the extreme peaks during recording.

If you are micing an amp then the amp setting can be tweaked for creative use of speaker compression also. A little speaker compression can go a long way when recording in my experience and is really more of a flavor thing than a peak taming kinda thing.

If you are not using an amp ..... you should ....lol ... but you still (should) have the option and headroom to insert a track compressor for the extreme peaks either during tracking or mixdown.

Of couse in any situation adjusting the attack characteristics of your playing technique will provide the most immediate results and helps eliminate the need for more gear in the chain.

-mike
 
Oh, I'll definately be using an amp alright. I've made the direct to board mistake before, and yeah, I would say I'm really happy with my "room" sound. It doesn't always transfer like it should, and I know that is the engineers job. I've heard this guys work before, he is a guitar player, one of the best anywhere, so I think it'll be ok. I know that some guitar purists want guitar to amp to mic clarity. I'd be capable of playing that way, but it's not my usual procedure, as I go from feathering lightly to beastly attack in the same measure quite often. I know my compressor is a crutch, but I like hopping on one leg!
 
mikemorgan said:
Oh, I'll definately be using an amp alright. I've made the direct to board mistake before, and yeah, I would say I'm really happy with my "room" sound. It doesn't always transfer like it should, and I know that is the engineers job. I've heard this guys work before, he is a guitar player, one of the best anywhere, so I think it'll be ok. I know that some guitar purists want guitar to amp to mic clarity. I'd be capable of playing that way, but it's not my usual procedure, as I go from feathering lightly to beastly attack in the same measure quite often. I know my compressor is a crutch, but I like hopping on one leg!
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Not that it's wrong or right..
but, it sounds to me like you are probably using a Line 6 head.
They have that over saturated punch on the low end.
I personally can't get into the sound, but if you love it. then live it.
But, as an engineer, I tend to like to get as clear and clean a signal as possible, so that I can fiddle with it a bit in mixing. Especially when a band/musician is scooping like it seems you are.. The issue is, guitars are generally a low-mid to mid-high range guitar, and if you scoop out the middle, you take out the meat... I liken it to most bottom heavy death metal guitar sounds. where all you hear is the scratchy highs and the thundering lows, but no clear notes. If that's what you are looking for, don't expect him to be able to resurect that clarity, if you haven't given him the material to work with.

Otherwise, just remember, less is more with distortion on recordings.
when i use my 5150, i never record w/ pre-amp up over 5. no need for "bees buzzing" on the recording.
 
You know, you're right, I guess my "sound" is pretty scooped but far from death metal. I play an Asat Bluesboy Tele through a Fender Bassman. The compressor is a custom built "Sonic Squisher" and I use a Bad Bob to add a little hair and sparkle when desired. I do have a disto pedal but only use it to get stupid.

We are doing mostly top40 country, so I guess I'm trying to emulate Brent Mason's sound, as he pretty much appears on every record made. I know his studio gear is extensive, but his live rig is very simple, and pretty much how he records, as well.
 
It really doesnt matter what sound you hear in the room. Its what comes out of the monitors that counts.
A good idea is to sit in the control room with your guitar and amp, and have your cabinet through in the recordin room. This way you can tweak your amp settings as you hear exactly what you are recording in real time.

Hard to get a bad sound that way.

Eck
 
Just turn down the recording input. The distortion itself works as a peak limiter. I've never had a heavy distorted guitar be too dynamic to get a strong signal without clipping.
 
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