S
scottfisher
New member
Is there any place that offers samples of the two mics? I want to see the difference in a starting condenser and a starting dynamic. If there arent, could someone explain how the difference sounds?
S
smtcharlie
emotion over sonics
Well, the biggest difference between a dynamic and a condensor is that a dynamic is designed to pick up sound only a few inches away from the mic - and a condensor is designed to pick up sound from the whole room. So depending on what you are recording, that may make a huge difference.
Sound-wise, a dynamic will sound more midrange-y, and a side address condensor will have more high's and probably better lows (just a much fuller sound in general). So again, depending on what you are recording, one is better than the other. If you only have one track for a full drum kit, then the condensor is the better choice. If you are recording a guitar amp, the dynamic may be the better choice.
If you only have one mic in your collection, the consendor is probably the way to go. SP B1 will give you an okay or good sound on just about anything...and that's not true of a 57.
If you list what you are recording, and what gear you have now, you'll probably get more focused advice around this board...
Sound-wise, a dynamic will sound more midrange-y, and a side address condensor will have more high's and probably better lows (just a much fuller sound in general). So again, depending on what you are recording, one is better than the other. If you only have one track for a full drum kit, then the condensor is the better choice. If you are recording a guitar amp, the dynamic may be the better choice.
If you only have one mic in your collection, the consendor is probably the way to go. SP B1 will give you an okay or good sound on just about anything...and that's not true of a 57.
If you list what you are recording, and what gear you have now, you'll probably get more focused advice around this board...
S
scottfisher
New member
Okay, Im recording loud acoustic music. Vocals will get harsh, as will the acoustic guitar. The room isnt that good sounding. We may end up micing an amp, but thats not for sure right now.
The vocals may hit high notes, but not very often. We'll be using a Presonus Firebox.
The vocals may hit high notes, but not very often. We'll be using a Presonus Firebox.
HangDawg
bUnGhOlIo
smtcharlie said:
That's a pretty poor generalization. I think a read through the big mic thread, "How does diaphragm size/polar pattern relate to mic applications" at the top of the mic forum is in order.
amra
Well-known member
I have both, and have used both for micing guitar cabs, 4x12 and combo amps. These are the main differences I noticed between the two, for this application:
The SM57 sounds a little more pronounced on the mid and lows (a little fuller or heavier). It is somewhat lacking on the highs. The B1 had more of a "scooped" sound, nice and clear on the highs, decent lows, not much in the mid range. They both seemed to handle high SPLs just fine. I got the best results by using both and blending the two. If I had to pick one or the other for micing hard rock guitar I would pick the SM57. If I had to pick one of the 2 for micing and acoustic, I would pick the B1. If I could I would rather use both of them together for acoustic and miced amps.
The SM57 sounds a little more pronounced on the mid and lows (a little fuller or heavier). It is somewhat lacking on the highs. The B1 had more of a "scooped" sound, nice and clear on the highs, decent lows, not much in the mid range. They both seemed to handle high SPLs just fine. I got the best results by using both and blending the two. If I had to pick one or the other for micing hard rock guitar I would pick the SM57. If I had to pick one of the 2 for micing and acoustic, I would pick the B1. If I could I would rather use both of them together for acoustic and miced amps.
H
Han
New member
HangDawg said:
+1, Besides that, comparing the SM57 to the B1 is like comparing a babana to a grapefruit.
S
smtcharlie
emotion over sonics
Han said:
Okay, fair enough - I'm a home studio guy, and certainly not an expert. I read much of that thread, but not all (and it's been a while). I agree that it is wonderful information.
But from an applied perspective of someone buying a $100 mic, is my statement so awful? It's my experience that condensors within the $100-$200 range sound pretty similar. Is frequency response, or Polar patterns, etc mission critical to someone just getting started and getting a few sounds?
I'm not trying to be an arse here, just curious why my statement was so inaccurate....
amra
Well-known member
- Post edited -
I misread your question, my bad.
I think the part people are disagreeing with is the part where you say condensers are not made for close micing cabs, etc. Many condensers do just fine with high SPLs.
I misread your question, my bad.
I think the part people are disagreeing with is the part where you say condensers are not made for close micing cabs, etc. Many condensers do just fine with high SPLs.
M
mrface2112
Well-known member
smtcharlie said:
.....and it's my experience that they're NOT. let's take the B1, which is a very neutral sounding mic. on the "darker" end of the spectrum you've got the MXL V67, and on the "hyped high end" side of the spectrum you've got something like a Rode NT1a or the SP C1.....and many flavorings inbetween.
all of these mics are in the sub-$200 realm, and not a one of them sounds similar--and given the ones i mentioned, they sound VERY different. and let's not start in on the "quality" of some companies' makes versus others, which can have a profound effect on the sound of the mic.
now, as for the B1 compared to an SM57......i've repeatedly called the B1 "the sm57 of cheap chinese condensers". i would use my B1 in any place i would/could use my 57s. tonally i don't think they're all THAT different (amra described the diffs pretty well).....but basically the B1 will give you a "more detailed" version of what the 57 will.
i think the B1 is an excellent "all around" mic--and much like the 57, rarely will it sound STUNNING on any source......but also rarely will it sound horrible.
IMO, the B1 is a definite winner in the "bang for buck" category.
cheers,
wade
Y
yoohoo
New member
What i've noticed is that the Audix i5 is really durable and a good all-around dynamic mic, moreso, in my opinion, than the 57, so if you:re willing to pay a few extra bucks, you:ll get a real bang.
B
Big Kenny
New member
Who said anything about Audix? I thought we were comparing grapefruits and bananas.
Both have an outside layer, removed for consumption
Both are yellow
Both come in bunches
Both are available at your local Pick and Save
Now the mics
Both pick up sound (one through pressure and one through magnetiam and eledtricity)
Both are cheap
Both are found in or around people trying to record music
Both are available at your local Guitar Center
Condenser:About Condenser (Capacitor) Microphones
These mics work on the principle of electrostatic transduction. The capsule assembly consists of a fixed back plate and a movable front plate (diaphram). Impinging sound changes the distance between the plates, hence the capacitive charge. This charge is converted to a voltage, which is amplified by an internal preamp. The output of a condenser mic is proportional to the amplitude of it's diaphram motion (as opposed to diaphram velocity in dynamic mics). Some condenser mics utilize tube electronics (Neumann M49, U47, U67, AKG Cl 2) or RF transduction principles (Sennheiser MKH series).
All condenser mics require powering for their internal preamps and to provide a polarizing voltage to the capsule assembly. This is typically done with "phantom" power (also referred to as P48) which provides 48 volts DC through the the conductors on pins 2 and 3 of the mic cable (pin 1 conductor provides the ground return path). Phantom powering is normally provided by the console, but can be done with outboard remote supplies. Any shorts in the mic cable conductors can result in noises, hums or lack of usable output from the mic.
Condenser mics (particularly those with small diaphrams) generally have extended high frequency bandwidth (up to and beyond 20 kHz. in some cases) and a flatter, smoother frequency response within band than dynamics mics. This extended high end response makes these mics ideal for sources with significant high frequency energy such as cymbals and hi-hats.
Condenser mics are typically more sensitive and offer higher output levels than dynamic mics. In most cases they also have lower self-noise and higher sensitivity.
Condenser mics generally overload more easily than dynamics (particularly older FET designs like the Neumann U87 and the original AKG C414); this is due mostly to their internal active electronics. Care must be taken when using condenser mics close to percussive or high SPL sources, unless this type of distortion is being deliberately sought. It is also possible to 'bottom out' the diaphram on some models, which can produce a very nasty, unmusical sound.
Condenser mics are less rugged (easier to damage) than dynamics. They are also more expensive to fix or replace (the TLM170 now retails for close to $3k). Vintage tube condenser mics in pristine condition are very expensive and are prized for a variety of recording applications, especially lead vocals.
Current research and development is centered primarily on improving FET or solid-state condenser designs. Improvements include: lower noise specs, higher dynamic range capability and very smooth on- and off-axis frequency response curves. Good examples of these new designs would include: Bruel and Kjaer 4000 series, Schoeps Colette series and the Sennheiser MKH series mics. At the same time, great interest has been renewed in older, tube circuit designs such as the Neumann M49, M50, U47, U67 and AKG C12. Many manufacturers are reissuing older designs (AKG offers the 'vintage reissue' Cl2VR) or introducing new tube mics such as the Sony 800G and Neumann TLM149. Neumann recently reissued a limited number of new U67 tube mics based on the original design for $5000. each!
Microphone selection and application are very much matters of individual taste. The "flattest" or "cleanest" mic may not always be the best choice. For example, small diaphram condensers are usually not the first choice for miking kick drums. On the other hand, the more common choices for this application (Sennheiser 421, Electro Voice RE20, AKG D112, etc.) are not particularly flat or extended in terms of their frequency responses. For some applications, strong frequency response colorations and other non-linearities may provide the desired sonic character. Hands on experience with various miking applications and a thorough knowledge of available mic hardware will provide the best answers to the common question: "How do I mic a ___________?" Reading interviews with top producer/engineers (or discussing these issues on-line at the rec.audio.pro newsgroup) should also provide some insight and ideas. Of course, your professor probably also has some useful tips for you to consider.
Professional condenser mics are generally more expensive than dynamics. They range from around $350. (Shure SM81) to close to $10k. Vintage tube mics command large $$ on the used equipment market. An AKG C12 in mint condition now sells for approx. $7.5k; a Neumann U47 with an original VF-14 tube goes for about $6.5k. A used U67 represents a good bargain at around $3.5k!
Dynamic: Electrical generators create current by passing coils of conductive wire past magnets--this principle is known as induction. A dynamic microphone works on the same principle. Usually a coil of thing wire called a voice coil is attached to the diaphragm The wire is coiled around a fixed magnet separated from it by a very small gap. As sound waves hit the diaphragm it causes the coil to move in the magnetic field of the magnet, thereby producing fluctuation in the current moving through the coil.
Dynamic mics are best used for loud sounds or sound that may contain sharp transients. The are not as good for minute detailed sounds and usually do not have the high frequency response of a condenser microphone. Also, they are usually cheaper and more robust than condenser mics
And I like grapefruit while I don't care for the B1. However, a grapefruit has no B1 while a banana does
Enda Story!
Dynamic:
Both have an outside layer, removed for consumption
Both are yellow
Both come in bunches
Both are available at your local Pick and Save
Now the mics
Both pick up sound (one through pressure and one through magnetiam and eledtricity)
Both are cheap
Both are found in or around people trying to record music
Both are available at your local Guitar Center
Condenser:About Condenser (Capacitor) Microphones
These mics work on the principle of electrostatic transduction. The capsule assembly consists of a fixed back plate and a movable front plate (diaphram). Impinging sound changes the distance between the plates, hence the capacitive charge. This charge is converted to a voltage, which is amplified by an internal preamp. The output of a condenser mic is proportional to the amplitude of it's diaphram motion (as opposed to diaphram velocity in dynamic mics). Some condenser mics utilize tube electronics (Neumann M49, U47, U67, AKG Cl 2) or RF transduction principles (Sennheiser MKH series).
All condenser mics require powering for their internal preamps and to provide a polarizing voltage to the capsule assembly. This is typically done with "phantom" power (also referred to as P48) which provides 48 volts DC through the the conductors on pins 2 and 3 of the mic cable (pin 1 conductor provides the ground return path). Phantom powering is normally provided by the console, but can be done with outboard remote supplies. Any shorts in the mic cable conductors can result in noises, hums or lack of usable output from the mic.
Condenser mics (particularly those with small diaphrams) generally have extended high frequency bandwidth (up to and beyond 20 kHz. in some cases) and a flatter, smoother frequency response within band than dynamics mics. This extended high end response makes these mics ideal for sources with significant high frequency energy such as cymbals and hi-hats.
Condenser mics are typically more sensitive and offer higher output levels than dynamic mics. In most cases they also have lower self-noise and higher sensitivity.
Condenser mics generally overload more easily than dynamics (particularly older FET designs like the Neumann U87 and the original AKG C414); this is due mostly to their internal active electronics. Care must be taken when using condenser mics close to percussive or high SPL sources, unless this type of distortion is being deliberately sought. It is also possible to 'bottom out' the diaphram on some models, which can produce a very nasty, unmusical sound.
Condenser mics are less rugged (easier to damage) than dynamics. They are also more expensive to fix or replace (the TLM170 now retails for close to $3k). Vintage tube condenser mics in pristine condition are very expensive and are prized for a variety of recording applications, especially lead vocals.
Current research and development is centered primarily on improving FET or solid-state condenser designs. Improvements include: lower noise specs, higher dynamic range capability and very smooth on- and off-axis frequency response curves. Good examples of these new designs would include: Bruel and Kjaer 4000 series, Schoeps Colette series and the Sennheiser MKH series mics. At the same time, great interest has been renewed in older, tube circuit designs such as the Neumann M49, M50, U47, U67 and AKG C12. Many manufacturers are reissuing older designs (AKG offers the 'vintage reissue' Cl2VR) or introducing new tube mics such as the Sony 800G and Neumann TLM149. Neumann recently reissued a limited number of new U67 tube mics based on the original design for $5000. each!
Microphone selection and application are very much matters of individual taste. The "flattest" or "cleanest" mic may not always be the best choice. For example, small diaphram condensers are usually not the first choice for miking kick drums. On the other hand, the more common choices for this application (Sennheiser 421, Electro Voice RE20, AKG D112, etc.) are not particularly flat or extended in terms of their frequency responses. For some applications, strong frequency response colorations and other non-linearities may provide the desired sonic character. Hands on experience with various miking applications and a thorough knowledge of available mic hardware will provide the best answers to the common question: "How do I mic a ___________?" Reading interviews with top producer/engineers (or discussing these issues on-line at the rec.audio.pro newsgroup) should also provide some insight and ideas. Of course, your professor probably also has some useful tips for you to consider.
Professional condenser mics are generally more expensive than dynamics. They range from around $350. (Shure SM81) to close to $10k. Vintage tube mics command large $$ on the used equipment market. An AKG C12 in mint condition now sells for approx. $7.5k; a Neumann U47 with an original VF-14 tube goes for about $6.5k. A used U67 represents a good bargain at around $3.5k!
Dynamic: Electrical generators create current by passing coils of conductive wire past magnets--this principle is known as induction. A dynamic microphone works on the same principle. Usually a coil of thing wire called a voice coil is attached to the diaphragm The wire is coiled around a fixed magnet separated from it by a very small gap. As sound waves hit the diaphragm it causes the coil to move in the magnetic field of the magnet, thereby producing fluctuation in the current moving through the coil.
Dynamic mics are best used for loud sounds or sound that may contain sharp transients. The are not as good for minute detailed sounds and usually do not have the high frequency response of a condenser microphone. Also, they are usually cheaper and more robust than condenser mics
And I like grapefruit while I don't care for the B1. However, a grapefruit has no B1 while a banana does
Enda Story!
Dynamic:
S
Slowjett
New member
This song was recorded with 1 Studio Projects B1 I did both vocals and guitar in one take into this one mic. I also DI the pre amp on the acoustic, and used that channel and turned it down low and panned it all the way to one side to enhance the stereo feel... Came out real well. I could not have picked up the same dynamics had I been useing a 57
-josh
-josh
D
dudge
New member
One or two of each (B1 & SM57) is in my opinion, the best place for someone to start a mic collection. They are both cheap, and they are both versatile.
You can record most sound sources with one or the other and it will work.
If you get hooked on this recording stuff, you will want more and more options later.
My 2¢
You can record most sound sources with one or the other and it will work.
If you get hooked on this recording stuff, you will want more and more options later.
My 2¢
S
smtcharlie
emotion over sonics
amra said:
Oh, yeah - that's a good point. Sorry Scottfisher, maybe that post was way too vague. Listen to these other guys....
punkin
Univalve & Avatar Speaks
amra said:
I would like to add that you don't always have to close mic a guitar cab. Earlier this year I really struggled to capture a new cab I bought which had a mix of speakers in it...it sounds great but the old tried and true SM57 and/or Dragon Fly in the grill trick didn't work. I ended up using a LDC about 3 to 5 feet away and filling in a little with the SM57 to put a little more mid crunch in. Over all, I've had some pretty decent results backing away and using a slightly bigger mic.
I don't own a B-1 but a lot of folks here do and like them for a lot of things. I can say that the SM57's I have do get a lot of use mostly around the drum set and close micing loud sources but I seem to get a little more mileage out of the medium and large condensers especially when it comes to acoustic stuff.
Just my 2 cents worth.
punkin
Univalve & Avatar Speaks
dudge said:
I second that or at least a similar mix of mic types.
P
pappy999
New member
I just picked up a couple of b-1's. I compared them to my Shure KSM-44's and they sound close. I think Studio Projects does some pretty nice stuff with these mics. I recorded the same sample from a guitar amp at the same range. The sample sounded the same through both mics and the waveform even looked close. The shure was a little more pronounced in the mid range. I will be using the b-1's on my next project as an overhead drum pair. Does anyone have any experience with the b-1's on drum OH's?
I would buy a b-1 over an sm-57 any day. I have used sm-57's on everything from snare drums to, well, snare drums and the sound is always the same. I have also miced guitar cabs with sm-57's and got decent results. For stagework, you cannot beat the reliability and durability of the 57.
I would buy a b-1 over an sm-57 any day. I have used sm-57's on everything from snare drums to, well, snare drums and the sound is always the same. I have also miced guitar cabs with sm-57's and got decent results. For stagework, you cannot beat the reliability and durability of the 57.
amra
Well-known member
dudge said:
+1!
amra
treymonfauntre
Magic Bag Of Sounds
scottfisher said:
get the b1. it does a pretty good job on acoustic guitar and vocals and even on guitar amps and drum overheads. the 57 is good for guitar cabs, snares, toms, and live/backup vocals, but i'd never make it my first choice for acoustic guitar or main vocals.
H
Han
New member
smtcharlie said:
Okay, you were trying to give the guy advice, which is great. But there's so much difference between mics, pattern, proximity, off axis response will differ very. Any mic will pick up sound from the whole room, the SM57 also, but a LDC like the B1 is more sensitive.
Any 'engineer' can put a microphone in front of a guitar amp and tweak some with distance and placement until he has a decent sound, but few can make a great recording of an orchestra or bigband at once.
One has to know what mic will give him the best possible sound in what circumstances and most of all why. This has much to do with knowledge, experience and talent. A cheap dynamic mic can sound great and a (misused) extremely expensive condenser can sound like crap.
Study the big thread and swallow that knowledge and keep it in a safe place in yer brain, it will help you a lot.
Peace, han
Similar threads
