Combining console with interface/soundcard?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nightfire
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Nightfire

Nightfire

Aspiring Idiot
Please bear with me here;)

Suppose I had an old analogue console with 8 channels and would want to record 8 channels at a time.

Would I need to buy for ex. a Firepod, then go from console to firepod to comp? Cause then I may as well just use the Firepod without console....

OR

would a soundcard like http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-Delta-1010-LT-PCI-Digital-Audio-System?sku=701376 allow me to import all 8 tracks? (I noticed the soundcard has many different inputs but only 2 XLR, do you go from console to soundcard with XLR? cause in that case I could only record 2 channels at a time or bus a bunch of channels into 2 individual lines)


AND

suppose I did go with a console through interface/soundcard with 8 invidual channels, could I then also mix on the console? Would the comp send 8 tracks and receive 8 tracks simulatenously?


IN ADDITION

are there digital convertors without preamps for such a specific reason as going from console (already with preamp) to comp via firewire?


Thanks

Mike
 
Well first off, you would want to have direct outs from the console or enough busses to send out of the mixer to record from. But provided that is the case, then any line level recording interface would work. You would not need pre's since the mixer would already have those
 
Yeah, direct outs from console. Pardon my ignorance, what is a "line level" interface?
 
Nightfire said:
Please bear with me here;)

Suppose I had an old analogue console with 8 channels and would want to record 8 channels at a time.

Would I need to buy for ex. a Firepod, then go from console to firepod to comp? Cause then I may as well just use the Firepod without console....

OR

would a soundcard like http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-Delta-1010-LT-PCI-Digital-Audio-System?sku=701376 allow me to import all 8 tracks? (I noticed the soundcard has many different inputs but only 2 XLR, do you go from console to soundcard with XLR? cause in that case I could only record 2 channels at a time or bus a bunch of channels into 2 individual lines)


AND

suppose I did go with a console through interface/soundcard with 8 invidual channels, could I then also mix on the console? Would the comp send 8 tracks and receive 8 tracks simulatenously?


IN ADDITION

are there digital convertors without preamps for such a specific reason as going from console (already with preamp) to comp via firewire?


Thanks

Mike
Click to expand...

This is exactly what you're looking for
http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/n8n12/index.html

The 12 channel N12 is $1500, but you get what you pay for in sound quality. These are digital mixers but they look and act like analog ones.
 
The original question here leaves a lot of open ends and is actually a pretty big question.

First, The M-Audio soundcard you linked to would let you record and playback 8 tracks.

Second, as far as the Delta having 2 xlr inputs, xlr is only a format. You can easily buy or build cables that will interface between most all of your different formats. Most affordable consoles will have 1/4" jacks for direct outs. The cheapest ones will be unbalanced and use a TS cable. Average ones will use TRS balanced connections, a lot of larger consoles will use either multipin balanced connections or even XLR balanced connections. On smaller boards buss outs will likely be TRS balanced, but on nicer consoles they will usually be multipin again or xlr, but most always balanced. In any of these cases, cables to adapt to the Delta's RCA and XLR and any 1/4" inputs can be bought or made.

Third, the correct signal chain would be console >>> Soundcard >>> Computer. With the specific example of the Firepod, from the console you would go into the Firepod's line inputs, thus bypassing the preamps. There are definately reasons why you would still want to use the console instead of the firepod, but there are lots of reasons why you might not. First, if your console sounds better, then you should use it. A console also makes headphone mixes much easier to make and provides no latency. If the Firepod sounds better though, you may want to get rid of the console all together and just add a control room section to your setup (for running sets of speakers, speaker volume etc....) like the Presonus Central Station. Which set up suits you best should depend primarily upon the quality of the equipment available compared to the needs of the user.

Fourth, unless you have a mixer specifically designed for studio use (i.e. inline or split console designs) you will need at least a 16 channel console if you want to record 8 simulataneous channels and have seperate playback facilities for them from the soundcard. The soundcard and software however should have no problem doing this unless it is a "light" version of the program in which the limitations do not allow this kind of track count.

Fifth, there are converters without preamps on the market. In fact, pretty much all converters don't have preamps. What many people around here talk about as converters are actually combo units designed with other purposes in mind as well. The M-Audio in the original reference is primarily an audio interface. Its main job is to communicate with your DAW apllication by converting the signal to and from digital (like a converter would) but also providing the driver system to communicate with your operating system and your DAW application. It also offers the ability to be the preamp for two channels. Most of your current "soundcard" offerings are combo units that do mulitple features because the primary buyer and user base for these items is running a low budget operation where multiple features like this are almost a necessity. You can buy an interface with no preamps, but not necessarily for less money. Most all of your high quality converters do not offer the "combo" approach, but it is not uncommon now for them to be able to interface directly with your computer. With most of your more affordable combo units (M-Audio, Presonus, Motu etc...) getting one for a lower cost typically means fewer channels, and not just sacrificing the preamp section. Having a preamp there may seem redundant, but in reality you can just ignore the preamp stage and use the line inputs, or use the preamp on occasion as an option avaliable to you.
 
Mike,
That M-Audio card should be all you need. There are 8 line ins (which is the level you need to bus from you console) and 8 outs. The two XLR inputs on the card can be used with or without the preamp on the card. In your case, you'll just be using them as another line level connection. You will need 16 channels on your mixer, though, as xstatic mentioned.
 
Thanks xstatic for the detailed post and all others who have contributed so far.
Heres the thing, I dont have a console yet and I dont have a firepod yet.
I am trying to decide between the two and the console just appeals me more because I could also use it at gigs etc. and I would have faders and knobs to mix.
As far as convertors go, I couldnt find any convertors as cheaper than a firepod, thats why the soundcard seemed like a smart choice to act as convertor.
Are any of you using console and DAW combined? While mixing, will I always have to write down where the faders are if continuing at another time?

Mike
 
Nightfire said:
Are any of you using console and DAW combined? While mixing, will I always have to write down where the faders are if continuing at another time?
Click to expand...

Unless you get a digital mixer why not mix in the box? You avoid an extra conversion that way too.
 
There are actually plenty of reasons to not mix in the box just as there are to mix in the box. Even with a fairly cheap setup, mixing on the console can have its advantages. First, its easier. Things are faster and tend to just "feel right" quicker. Second, imaging seems different as well as overall sound. For some people these adavantages are worth it, for others they aren't. With digital you get full recall, somewhat unlimited plugin use, and automation. Those are the biggest advantages that I feel over mixing outside the box. There is definately a certain amount of "feel" that is lost though with a mouse over twisting knobs and pushing faders on an actual console.
 
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