Close to Ghost - Soundcraft pres

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Middleman

Middleman

Professional Amateur
Thought some of you might want a little background on Soundcraft mic pres. Contrary to popular belief most of their low end boards do not use the Ghost Pres found in their high end products. To add to the confusion, they promote some of their lo end products as having the same design as the ghost pres found in their high end consoles.

If you read through their product brochures they use 3 current types of mic pres.

Type 1:Ghost or Promic pres - The Promic pres are found in their Ghost console.

Type 2:Ultramic + pres (designed by Graham Blyth) - The Ultra is a newer design for the Spirit SX, F1 and FX multipurpose consoles as well as the new 328XD digital console. Most of the current Live Series use these as well, MH4, MH3, Broadway, 5 series, 4 series, K3, K2, TWO, K1, 324 Live, Spirit 8, Spirit Live 4-2, Spirit LX7, PowerStation 1200, PowerStation 600.

Type 3: High quality, linear mic preamps: The High Quality are found in the Spirit M Series, E series and Notepad, Powerpad mixers.

Older Unknown Types :

Older Live Series literature refers to them as incorporating circuit technology identical to that used on some of the most sophisticated Soundcraft consoles. So these might be close to Ghost.

Delta DLX, Delta 200 etc. –From their literature, “The same patented technology as appears in our latest flagship consoles.” These too, might be close to Ghost.

This is all I could glean from their site. I think it’s important to know several magazine reviews I have read on the M series and E series comment that the pres have the same design pres as found in the higher end Ghost. This is not true. Unless the Ultra+ and High Quality linear pres share some similar design with the Promic preamp. The Ultra+ and HQL types are being promoted as similar and I think this may be misleading.

All this said, I have compared the Mackie, Behringer and Notepad preamps and even at the low end the Soundcraft were smoother, quieter and less sterile than the others. But if you want a close to Ghost sound you might want to pick up one of the Ultramic + pres above the M series, E series and Notepad/Powerpad boards. It looks like all their newer boards are moving towards this design.
 
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Middleman,
Thanks for the info, makes me feel better that I got the ultra +
pres :D

T
 
A while ago I checked their website to look at the spec on the M-serie, only to discover that there where no mention about the ghost pres.

I've read a review of the M-serie in the main swedish studio gear magazine. The reviwer did clearly point out that this was indeed the same pres as the ghost serie mixers, cause he's been using the ghost board in a great extent. He also wrote that he did a A B test with the ghost, I'm quoting:
The micpres impressed. I did a direct compartion with a ghost-mixer, and it seems to be correct what Soundcraft is saying, that it is the same micpre. They sound very alike, considerble more body and presence than what I've expect in this price range. The soundquality is warm, open with lots of detail. And the imputs very "low-noise" not just on the paper. The transientresponse if obviusly better than on the FX16 and it's easy to suspect that the micpres are the biggest diffrens.
Click to expand...

Ghost pre or not, the M-serie mixers are more known for better preformance/soundquality than a lots of options(built in FX, subgroups, e.t.c.)

I own a FX8 and considering switching to a M8, but now I don't know what to think, the M-serie mixers seems to be so much more solid built units than the FX/SX serie.

Middelman, have you done a practical shoot-out or is it just your conclusion from the accual facts on their website?

:confused:
 
hey man,
after reading that do you still think my old soundcraft series 200 will sound thin? i still havent gotten around to fixing it...

T
 
Flames

I did not compare of the Pro vs Ultra+ vs High quality. Just compared the Mackie vs Soundcraft vs Behringer on the lo end.

Their product brochures, especially the Spirit line, specifically indicate when the pre is Ultra+ or HQL. It does not make sense that they would put Ghost pres in their Notepads & M series (the HQL) and put lesser quality in their higher end boards the FX, F1 and SX (which used the Ultra+). Thus I don't believe the M series are any different than the Notepads pres. Their brochure indicates these are HQL in both cases.

I think Soundcraft is being purposely vague about the whole thing, using terms like, "similar technology" and "like our high end consoles". This to make buyers think they are getting technology which is par to their Pro mic pres in the Ghost. They also have let some of the magazine reviews use the same verbage. The gentleman in the article you point out is also making an assumption and his comments are speculation without confirmation from Soundcraft.

I spent a day sifting through their tech docs and brochures to kinda bring some of this to light. I would like to see a company rep however, come here and clear this up. Mainly because I can't stand all the BS that goes on regarding gear and I think we need to call some people's bluff on occasion.

If they are the same pres as the ghost they need to state that in plain language not vague inuendo. They also need to put that in their brochures.

ad0lescnts,

I would think those Deltas are closer to the ghosts than the Ultra+ or the HQL. However, now I am speculating:D
 
I was kinda looking into the Ghost today. I know it sounds great, and it seems to be layed out neatly, except for the 48V switches... at the back! Not exactly very ergonomic...

What's the price for a 32channel Ghost in the states ? They go for 6600€/$ in Europe.


Herwig
 
Middleman, I think the M-series HAVE TO BE REGARDED as being ABOVE SX/FX/F1 stuff...
For instance, the SX and F1 only have 3 auxes, the M-series have 4 auxes. Also, ALL the stereo inputs of the M-series are on jacks, instead of RCA (like 2 stereo channels of the SX).

Right now the SX costs $650 in the Netherlands, and the M8 costs $600, when I fiddled with them in some store, the M8 did seem to be built better. Also it has more headroom.
But I really like the lay-out and look of the SX, it has exactly what I need, although I would prefer a 16 channel desk with 8 subgroups. Recently I've been eyeballing the A&H Mixwizard 14:4:2, which is quite equipped.
 
Speeddemon,
You say that the M-serie has more headroom than the SX, I can just get to the conclusion that the SX and FX are the same in that matter, cause more headroom is maybe just what I need.
When I use my FX8 when recording to my PC DAW the headroom is more than sufficient, but when I use it together with my Tascam 38 the micpres on the FX8 seems to clip before I can really get that larger amount of tape saturation which I would like occasionally.
The Tascam 38 is properly adjusted so that is not the issue.

What is even more confuseing is that when I look att the technical spec on the SX/FX I read +22dBu at "mic imput maximum level", but when I check the spec on the M-serie I read +12dBu.
+12dBu seems like a small figure compared to others, but then again, should you maybe take these figures with a "grain of salt" cause , in the reviwes of the M-serie they claim that these mixers have more than sufficient headroom, so maybe the headroom issue is better practical related on the M-serie mixers than the SX/FX-serie, or do I just wish it's so.

Speeddemon, did you do a more extencive compartion between the two, could you acctualy get a "hotter" signal out of the M8 than the SX.
 
Why do the M series HAVE TO BE REGARDED as better? Their literature indicates the M series and down are the HQL pres. Now there is SPDIF and some great routing as well as 100mm faders but according to their information a Notepad and the M series are the same pres.

I don't have the M series here to play with but was thinking about buying the M4 or 8. The thing that has made me rethink is that they refer to the Spirit Notepads and Powerpads as having HQL pres. They also indicate the M series has HQL pres and there is no other explanation as to possible improved technology.

I'm thinking what a steal the Notepad is and that these are fairly good pres for cheap. I don't need the routing and SPDIF that the M boards have, just wanted some soundcraft pres.

Hey I'm open to correction but Soundcraft does not indicate anything more than I've indicated.
 
Hey guys,
The factor in which I decided on the SX (that I got) was the +22dBu input, plus look at the other specs, less distortion, EIN was better too (I think) its been a while. But a big factor is the aux's ,sure there is less on SX, but M is on RCA's unbalanced.
Also the stereo inputs are RCA and 1/4" they both work in tandem. It would work for aux returns OR synth line inputs.
It would suck to return your outboard at-10, talk about gain staging.
Anyway, the AH 1442 does look good all balanced in and out.

T
 
Chessrock, you bring up a good point. Although I don't use board EQ very often these days.

The EQ is no doubt much better in the M series and possibly the E series over the other lo end units.
 
sweetnubs said:
who cares, the ghost console sucks anyways.
Click to expand...

I guess that's kind of like the en vogue thing for people to say these days, isn't it nubs?
 
I know this is a old thread, but I just whant to clear things up.
I looked at the M-series pdf brochure that SoundCraft have posted on their website.

This is what Soundcraft claims:
The mic preamp in the new M Series utilises the same design as that used on our award-winning Ghost studio recording consoles.
Click to expand...

I've seen nothing about that the "HQL" pres are used in the M-series, what they say about the pres are: "Low noise, low distortion and RF rejection mic preamps" not something like "High-quality mic pre-amp inputs" a.k.a. "HQL".

Middelman, I don't know what brochure you've read, but it seems like faulty facts to claim that the M-serie pres are the same as the NotePad pres. It might not be the acctuall Ghost pres in the M-series, but they use the same design and by judging the facts has to be regarded as the most close to ghost pres of all the other SoundCraft pres availible.
If you check out the Ghost brochure you will see that the M-series spec do not exactly par with the ghost spec, so yes, they are not exact the same pres.

www.soundcraft.com/pdf/brochures/mseries_brochure.pdf

In the end everything goes down to real world practical use where I do belive the M-series has a advantage compared to the FX/SX and NotePad mixers, hey calling a mic pre "Ultramic+" is marketing abuse of "hifi" verbage and should be taken with a "grain of salt".

So why get suspicius of the good review, he accually did an A B test with the Ghost pres and claim that they where very alike. I don't whant to claim anything but, Middelman, to state your above mentioned facts without acctuall real world experience of the M-series is a quite radicall thing to do and not very credible.
If I would switch from the FX8 to the M8 I would offcours try it out and do a direct comparition to sort out the advantages before I'll buy.

:cool:
 
If you go to the combination brochure which has all of the Spirit line, you will see they use the same description i.e. HQL for the Notepad and the M series. This is what I based my post on.

Now, this was kind of a taunt to see if I could get someone from Soundcraft to come here and deny that they are the same. I am hoping they are not the same but this brochure indicates they are although not in direct language.

The term "same design as" is pretty misleading and several magazines use this. I don't think you can assume the M series are any better than the Notepads based on the combo brochure regardless of what is stated elsewhere.

I wish someone from Soundcraft could outline the differences between the Ghost, Ultra+ and HQL pres and if the Notepad and M series are indeed different. Remember, the M series are not the Ultra+.
 
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Flames said:
Hey, why does my signature never show up.


Yes it's checked.
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I think that feature is not supported anymore to save bandwidth.
 
Ok, in the pursuit of truth, I just emailed several people at Soundcraft so as soon as I hear something I will pass it along. Hey, I could be wrong but from the information they have provided it is not obvious as to what preamps are in the various products.
 
Middleman said:
Ok, in the pursuit of truth, I just emailed several people at Soundcraft so as soon as I hear something I will pass it along. Hey, I could be wrong but from the information they have provided it is not obvious as to what preamps are in the various products.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your efforts, Middleman. I'm curious about this as well. I have schematics of my old Spirit Folio mixer. I can say that the pres are discrete and don't appear to be cheaply made. If anyone can get their hands on some schematics for the Ghost and "M" pres, I'd be glad to check them out and let you know what I think.
 
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