Clocks and other fun stuff . . .

  • Thread starter Thread starter chessrock
  • Start date Start date
C

chessrock

Banned
Quck question for anyone who knows about this stuff:

I have a problem with transmitting a digital signal to my sound card and using my card as the "clock source." So basically, the way it looks is I'm going to have to use my external preamp/converter as the master clock source when I go this route.

So my question is : If I should record a bunch of guitar tracks, bass, etc. using my computer's sound card as the clock source, then I turn around and overdub some vocals, keys, and others using my converter as the clock source . . .

. . . am I likely to run in to some problems ? I mean, are my tunes going to start doing the jitterbug all over he place? Is it best for all tracks to be done using the same clock source?

I know . . . I know . . . try it, and see for youself, Chess. But I'm just too lazy for that sort of thing. Why not first learn from others' mistakes? :) :)

Thanks in advance for the input.
 
Chess... you definitely want to use the same clock for playback as you did for recording, across ALL your digital devices...

If your soundcard clock is jittery (and most likely it is!) then you should get yourself a good external clock...

A Lucid GENx96 or Apogee Rosetta.........


Bruce
 
Hey Bruce. Thanks for the reply.

About that Lucid clock, though. :) Let's say, theoretically, that I already had several tracks recorded with my sound card. The tracks were stellar, and the performance was magic, etc.

Now let's suppose I bought a nice Lucid clock to outfit my modest setup. Do you think it would be okay to finish the material I'm already half-way done with using the Lucid clock?

Or do you think I should finish the project with whatever clock I was using when we started. In other words, will I get all kinds of problems if tracks 1-8 were recorded with one clock as the master, and tracks 9-12 were recorded using another as the master.

Thanks again.

P.S. - and about the whole "jittery" clock thing. I'm afraid I don't know what jitter sounds like. I do know that I like the sound I'm getting - what comes out of it sounds just like what I put in, etc. I'm beginning to think jitter is yet another audio myth, or perhaps a common occurance among older digital devices (DAT recorders, cheap sound cards, etc.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but jitter has to sound like "something" in order for it to exist in my world. :) :)
 
Jitter affects the timing of the digital bit stream, and therefore affects how the leading and trailing edges of the bits are interpreted, which can have a very subtle effect of dulling the sound (in terms of definition and imaging, as opposed to "lack of high-end") or can be extreme - as in "clicks and pops"!

When I put a Lucid Genx96 in place to clock my BRC, I immediately noticed better definition in the bass and depth of the track - it was subtle at first - on a single track, but as I started working with it and added more tracks, everything was a lot more "open" sounding.... taking the clock out and using the BRC again, and there was a subtle shift back in terms of audible sound quality...

I was convinced!

Bruce
 
Sorry to step on the thread...

But, uh, so Bruce, is it the clock that is what's creating pops when I record and playback on my computer? The pops I have are at random points, not consistant, and occur sometimes more than others. It's driving me insane as sometimes I have to mix something down 20 times before I can get the track to both play and record right(I thought spending 1100 dollars on a new comp and Delta1010lt would get rid of my problems!!!) Should I consider a good clock as well? Is there a way to better the internal clock? Oi. Thanks for any help.

BTW are there any other decent clocks cheaper than the Lucid or Apogee? I'm tight on cash.
 
hokypokynose:

Sounds like your having other computer or software configuration problems that best be sorted out. Possibly hardware mismatch or software settings.

If your getting pops and clicks, I'd address that first before considering investing in an external clock.

What's the rest of your setup?
 
I agree with Emeric.. that doesn't sound like a jitter problem, but h/w mismatch - maybe sample rates...

Bruce
 
Emeric said:
Sounds like your having other computer or software configuration problems that best be sorted out. Possibly hardware mismatch or software settings.
Click to expand...

You probably need to change your buffer settings.

Go to the control panel/software for whatever sound card it is you have installed. Look around, and there should be something like "DMA buffer size" or something to that effect.

When you find something that says "buffer settings": There will likely be a drop-down menu with a bunch of gradually increasing number values. Try going a couple number values higher in value than your current setting (which should be highlighted). This will increase your main buffer settings, and will likely get rid of any pops or clicks you might be getting.

The lower your buffer size, the less latency you'll get. All these sound card manufacturers like to advertise how "low-latency" their sound cards are. But what they don't tell you is that you'll get all these nasty pops and clicks. Raise your buffers to a more reasonable setting . . . your latency will probably still be just fine, and the clicks will go away.
 
Hokey: Ahh. Just noticed that you have the 1010LT. I know that one well. :) Go through the steps I mentioned above, and your problems should be solved. If you still have troubles, PM me, and I'll give you some more tips. Good luck.

Chess


Bruce: Great explanation of the clock. So in other words, I imagine it's one of those things where you don't notice your clock wasn't so hot untill you experience what a good one sounds like. I'm following ya. Guess I know where I'll be investing a little more $$ once my accoustic treatment is all done. Talk about the money pit. :) :) Say, any thoughts on my original question? Thanks again.
 
Ahhh!!! Thank you for all of your help! I'll go change that buffer size(I think I screwed with that right before this all started :o). I'll let you know how this goes in a minute! Thanks!!!
 
chessrock said:
Say, any thoughts on my original question?
Click to expand...
Oh... I thought I implied an answer... you shouldn't have any problems - it can't be worse that what it is now! ;)

:D
 
I gave it the largest buffer it would allow me and I was able to listen to what I've been working on(which was also giving me the worst problems, a skip about every 10 seconds or so) with no problems. The suck of the track came through with no blemishes. Once or twice I thought the track screwed up, but I realized it was the pick on the accoustic guitar(which of course I wasn't able to pay attn to with the track skipping). Of course it was only one listen and it might have been a coincidence. If it still persists I might take advantage of your PM offer Chessrock.
 
hokypokynose said:
I gave it the largest buffer it would allow me
Click to expand...

Well, you don't exactly have to go overboard. Just jump up one or two levels. :) Oh, and also make sure you have nothing else major running in the background while you're recording. Go to your control pannel and start closing out unneeded programs and applications. Good way to test whether or not you need it: Close it and if it screws something up, restart your computer and make a mental not to self not to close it next time. :)
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
it can't be worse that what it is now! ;)
Click to expand...

Well, I guess I can excuse you for dancing around the subject a bit. It's probably been a tough night for you chasing around and harrassing teenagers about compressors like that. :) :) Then you gotta' put up with Chessrock's over-obsession on word clocks. I should have known: anything that comes standard on a sound card will automatically suck, while expensive clocks automatically equal great sound.

Even on screwed-up sounding harmonica tracks. :) :)
 
No no no.... I meant if you aren't hearing a problem now, you won't suddenly develop one because of your s/c clock!

(Unless you cut harp tracks!)

Incidently -- I spent so much time concentrating on that glitch while the track was solo'd, I neglected to check if it could be heard easily in the context of a mix... turns out it's not audible at all thanks to some timely drums!

That's the lesson of the day, kids -- if you can't fix it, then bury the fucker in the mix!!! :p ;)

:D :D
 
chessrock said:


Well, you don't exactly have to go overboard. Just jump up one or two levels. :) Oh, and also make sure you have nothing else major running in the background while you're recording. Go to your control pannel and start closing out unneeded programs and applications.
Click to expand...

Done that. All I have running is Explorer, Systray, and Regfind or something registry oriented that I found out is needed by the same method you suggested. The computer boots up in 20 seconds! :D
 
Actually, the "not having anything extraneous running in the backgroung" thing is what has otentimes given me the problem Bruce had with his blues harp. But, oddly enough, it only happens when I record at 96K while other things are running. :) Computers are so weird - go figure.

Bruce: Sorry for my hypersensitivity. I understand what you're saying now. And I have noticed very slight differences on tracks recorded with external clocks. Very slight though, but I can see how it could be one of those things that accumulates over several tracks to improve the overall mix (kind of like with good mic preamps). Maybe I can have Tyler do some of his math and hook me up on a good price on a clock. lol. :) Tyler-math. :)
 
Blue Bear, when you say you got a External clock for your BRC, that means you're running ADAT's right ?
I've got 2 ADAT XT's and no BRC, can I still connect an external clock and get a sound improvement out of it ?
I beileve they've got wordclock in/out but I'm a total rookie in that area.

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Stefen, you have to have a BRC to clock ADATs. The BRC has the word clock inputs only.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top