clipping

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davecg321

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Hey

I have a song that has a VSTI drum machine sampler (drumz) and this particular track is causing the master out (before mastering vsts are inserted) to clip. I have a limiter inserted on the track to boost the overall level as it is noticeably low without it. The level for the drum machine is set 2 thirds of the way up and I have lowered the other instruments in relation to this.

on my master out track I have some light compression, and a limiter. once these vsts are switched on the track obviously doesn't clip any more due to the limiter doing its work. my question... is it ok for this what i have just described to happen? i assume its not...?

I am worried about losing lots of volume and not being able to get it back with my basic mastering skills and programs. Should I aim to get a well balanced mix with NO clipping whatsoever and not rely on limiter/compression etc to fix these problems later...?

Cubase 5
T-racks 3 mastering suite

any help would be greatly appreciated

-Dave
 
What you are doing with the limiter and compressor on the master buss IS mastering (to a certain extent)

In the future you should get the mix to sound right without clipping. Worrying about overall volume during the mix is unnecessary and counter productive. Also, if you can get it loud enough with a limiter in the session, there is no reason you couldn't get it just as loud with the same limiter if you applied it to the rendered stereo file.

What I tend to do is start the mix with the drums, get them peaking around -6dbfs and start filling in the rest of the instruments around it. You should never clip the master buss, there is no reason to ever.

If you do find yourself in a situation where you can't take a mix and get it loud enough in the mastering stage, there is probably something wrong with the mix that us preventing you from doing it. You should go back to the mix and fix it.
 
FORGET ABOUT VOLUME. MIX FOR THE BEST SOOOUUUUUNNNNNDDDDD.

If it's too soft, turn up your monitoring volume. Why do you feel the need to make it louder? You have to ask yourself that. What is making you feel like it's too soft?

Cheers :)
 
Your master bus should not clip, there should be no need for a limiter on the master bus. All you need to do is bring down the level of your separate tracks so that the master peaks at maybe -6dB so it is nowhere near clipping.

Once you have your mix finished, bounce it to a stereo file then you can import it into your DAW and use a limiter to get the level of your mix up to the level you desire.

G
 
Do not fret about high perceived volume when mixing. Consider only making the mix sound as good as possible. What you need to be concerned with is gain structure.

If you are aiming for a certain mix style pull in a genre specific ref track and level match it by pulling down the level to match your mix volume. Then you have a tonal reference for your genre. (even though the ref is probably mastered). Of course a good mix engineer can build "loudness" into the mix itself.

This reference track approach gives you a good bar to aim at tone wise. Whether you self finalize the track or get it professionally mastered, the obtaining of 'high levels' and final improvements is best performed as a separate procedure. (or of course as you have the multitracks you can tweak the mix itself)

Have a read here regarding peak output levels (gain structure optimization) in a DAW:

http://www.masteringmastering.co.uk/gainstructure.html

cheers

SafeandSound Mastering
CD Album Mastering
 
Mo Facta said:
FORGET ABOUT VOLUME. MIX FOR THE BEST SOOOUUUUUNNNNNDDDDD.

If it's too soft, turn up your monitoring volume. Why do you feel the need to make it louder? You have to ask yourself that. What is making you feel like it's too soft?

Cheers :)
Click to expand...


^^^^^

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Clipping will not make your mix any louder--it comes on at the point where your electronics/software cannot handle any more signal. However, pushed too hard it does make those nice musical notes sound lie a buzz saw instead. Basically, the more you clip, the more your music starts to look and sound like a square wave instead of a sine wave.

When you're mixing go by the sound and don't worry much about the levels...other than keeping them well below clipping. Then, in the mastering process your levels can be raised to the maximum that can be handled without clipping. However, once you hit 0dBFS, you've hit a brick wall and cannot get any louder. Every binary digit in every sample is at "1". Now, some mastering engineers will add some clipping (usually in the analogue world, not digital) because the PERCEPTION of loudness changes--people have just learned to associate "clipping" and "loud". However, the reality is that it is ONLY a perception and they're making their tracks sound like rubbish for no actual gain in level.
 
And BTW, if you're using a 32-bit DAW, it is not clipping. It will only clip when it hits the DA converter or gets mixed down to 24 or 16 bit.

Just turn down your master fader.

Cheers :)
 
Mo Facta said:
And BTW, if you're using a 32-bit DAW, it is not clipping. It will only clip when it hits the DA converter or gets mixed down to 24 or 16 bit.

Just turn down your master fader.

Cheers :)
Click to expand...

Exactly...and why I love working in 32 bit float.

However, it's worth emphasising that working in 32 bit float can't help you if you clipped the signal before the computer, i.e. into the mic pre or into the A to D converter. If you clip in the analogue domain before it gets into the DAW, it's clipped forever.
 
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