clipping used as limiting

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axis_d

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So I'm reading a guide to mixing I bought from computer music magazine, and it briefly mentions a technique some people use for limiting.

It says, "there will be some people who like to clip the levels, as this acts as a form of hard limiting, and that increases the energy of the sounds"

Then later it says, "its extremely easy to get into the habit of overloading channels and often the clipped sound can act just like limiting the signal. "

But it doesn't explain that process. What do they mean? How is this technique performed exactly? If anyone can elaborate id appreciate it.
 
There's nothing complicated about it....they simply push the mix level up until it hits 0dBFS and starts to clip....and how much more you push it after that, I guess is an acquired taste.
The reason it acts as a limiter is because 0dBFS is the end....the digital audio can't really go higher than that....like throwing a ball against a brick wall.

I guess it can sound "interesting" on percussive peaks on rare occasions....but otherwise, there are better ways to add "excitement" to a mix than intentionally clipping the digital level.
 
I always thought clipping was when your mix overloads, goes into the red, and then you get those annoying cracks and pops. Is this so something different from that?
 
That's exactly what it is...intentional overload clipping of the audio to add "excitement" to the mix.

The *clips* add to the transients on percussive peaks. Some folks think that sounds good, but it's one of those things that can very easily turn things into nasty/harsh sounding mixes.
Like I said, there are better ways to add excitement to a mix than that.
 
miroslav said:
Like I said, there are better ways to add excitement to a mix than that.
Click to expand...

Ding Ding Ding Ding.... Try using an 1176 in Brit mode for exciting those drums. LA2A, CL1B, Distressor can all WOW a vocal line. But to get a track to really come alive, add some artistry, like actually getting your finger on a fader and "making" the mix more exciting. Bring out that guitar chop. Enhance that drum fill. Grab the full emotion of that vocal. Lots of things you can do to make your recordings come alive.
The new thought process of recording according to presets and brick walls just gets me sometimes. No feeling, no dynamics. Not that there's anything wrong with axis' question. Yes, learn the techniques. But you really do have to learn them. Not just get it in your head. I can tell you how to play a G major scale for two years straight, but until you sit down and practice it, you will never be able to use the knowledge. Once you practice it and learn the modes and work on some patterns, all of a sudden you're making music, instead of "knowing" how.
 
axis_d said:
I always thought clipping was when your mix overloads, goes into the red, and then you get those annoying cracks and pops. Is this so something different from that?
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. You can run things into the red in any number of places and ways. And in most cases it'd be an abuse' of normal healthy audio staging. But like other ways of intentionally distorting things -which is what we ought to be talking about here, it can be used for effect.

For example- Intentionally running a snare hot in the the mix and letting that clip slightly (and briefly) on the master is not 'leading into the red with the vocal, bass or other manner of generally out of control mix.
 
Anything that sets a hard limit on the output level must necessarily "clip" a big enough signal. The big difference in the sound and feel comes in what happens in the region right below the hard limit. It usually sounds pretty nasty if it's just linear up to the limit and then a hard breakover to a flat line. We tend to prefer the sound of a curve, and the "depth" of that curve (how far before the limit it starts to get curvy) makes quite a difference in the sound of the final output.

Almost as important is the filtering on either side of that non-linearity. The worst part about any distortion is when it takes already high frequencies and generates strong multiples of those - basically creating even higher frequencies. Most of our mixes really are pretty light in those ultra-high frequencies, and anything strong up there tends to stick out and get noticed. If you can filter out those high frequencies without completely ruining the underlying sound, you can get away with more distortion that you might think. A lot of times, that's built into the limiter itself.

That causes a problem, though, in that it can sometimes almost undo the limiting action. The limit creates a sharp edge, that sharp edge sounds like high harmonics, if you don't let that edge get so sharp (by filtering after) then it almost has to overshoot the limit.
 
thanks for the replies.. I'm kinda ignorant still, but what do you mean by "llinear" and "curvy" Not sure what those are referring to.
 
axis_d said:
thanks for the replies.. I'm kinda ignorant still, but what do you mean by "llinear" and "curvy" Not sure what those are referring to.
Click to expand...
Refers to what it would look like on a graph if you plotted it out such that the x component is the input and y is the output and connect the dots. Is it a straight line such that y = nx? Then it's linear (n is the gain factor). Or is it a curve such that it requires a more complex function (tanh, log, etc) to describe? Then it's non-linear and what I described as curvy. In the box, if you start with a triangle wave, run it through whatever you want to test, and then look at the output on an oscilloscope, you'll basically see that graph on each cycle of the wave form.
 
Got it, thanks. So is "exciting", or clipping, or hard limiting used on most genres of music? or only certain kinds? I dont think I ever realized this was an effect. Does anyone have any examples of what it sounds like?
 
This is one reason I typically use a limiter on my output bus while mixing.

I will pull up the input level now and again to see what happens. It does give an idea of what your mix is doing if one can't hear it.

There have been times when I found a snare transient jumping out of control because the limiter showed me that. I didn't hear it until I saw it.

All about learning...
 
I dont have anything i'm working on. I was just reading a tutorial about clipping, and didn't really understand it. I was just saying, I really dont know what it sounds like when people are saying. "it adds excitement" so i was hoping someone had an example they could post.
 
Bump for one more try. ANYONE have an example they can show of what this clipping effect sounds like?
 
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